The Importance of India • Hacker News Board

Re: The Importance of India

#141

Post by SJetKaran » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:01 PM UTC

TriNetra wrote: post #81

sand_castles wrote: post #8

Demographics is not destiny, if it were true, Pakistan would be more powerful than Russia. How you organize your society matters much more, Japan/SK has fraction of the global population, and somehow maintain their economic importance. India has all the problems of a democracy without much of the benefit. It's more likely that India becomes a CCP style country than stays a democracy. If India was so great it's smalle…

China has made big short-term gains because of an authoritarian rule. But, for a sustained growth, like that of USA, you need an open, democratic society which allows people to express their newly find voice. As people gain wealth, exposure and education, they gain new intellectual capabilities. This capability can be used for innovation but that requires people don't have undue pressure - they feel free to express t…

Related: Yasheng Huang: Does democracy stifle economic growth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR-uWwvpn5c&feature=youtu.be

Re: The Importance of India

#142

Post by SJetKaran » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:03 PM UTC

sand_castles wrote: post #27

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How you organize your society matters much more, Japan/SK has fraction of the global population, and somehow maintain their economic importance. They maintain their importance by being creditor nations, i.e. they are productive and save. > India has all the problems of a democracy without much of the benefit. It's more likely that India becomes a CCP style country than stays a democracy. There is a fundamental dist…

Everything you have mentioned is true, but it misses the point. India needs to go through a period of "communism" to get anywhere, the type of land reform needed to reduce poverty won't happen without somebody brutal enough to go against the interests of the wealthy in India. India is still mostly a feudal society, that was thrust into the 20th Century from the 16th Century. It was robbed of 4 centuries of social cha…

Any comparison of India with China generally leads to this sort of conclusions. If India and China were students in a class, China would be the topper of the class. India is a good student, just not a topper.

India has been making great progress on most fronts, just not as big leaps as China did.

Re: The Importance of India

#143

Post by phillipcarter » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:17 PM UTC

dqpb wrote: post #99

csours wrote: post #76

If someone recognized that they had some level of prejudice against persons from India, what would you advise they do. To be clear, I have friends of Indian descent, and I value them, but I also work with people from India and I'm afraid I find them more annoying than not.

I think it depends on what annoys you. I find myself annoyed by any kind of cultural tick. Phrases, mannerisms, cliches, tropes, all bother me to the extent that they are common and pervasive (in any culture). But by far I see this the worste in youths. Highschoolers and undergrads are so painfully unoriginal. But, that's life. Better to focus your attention on people who you find unique and impressive than to worry…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ

Re: The Importance of India

#144

Post by throwaway384629 » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:17 PM UTC

ra7 wrote: post #139

throwaway384629 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

140 Cases Filed Against Members of a newly formed political party, 72 Disposed of, Just 1 Conviction So Far https://www.news18.com/news/india/140-cases-filed-against-aa... Edited to add more content: You can see the difference in how legal system treats you based on if you are from ruling party or opposition. The prime minister of India is accused of using a fake degree. See the difference when Indian PM Modi is accu…

Nice try. None of the cases filed are for forming a political party or participating in democratic exercises. They range from criminal cases to defamation. The "newly formed" political party has been in power in Delhi since 2015 and has won the last two state elections. You are proving my point.

Of course they will not directly file a charge against you for forming a political party. But they will find other ways.

Actually they did filed cases against students for protesting against government.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/apr/21/de...

Re: The Importance of India

#145

Post by TriNetra » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

vijaybritto wrote: post #136

TriNetra wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A low caste guy was shot dead last week for entering a temple. Check the last paragraph in that news: > However, SP Amroha Vipin Tada denied the father’s charges saying that the initial report suggests of a dispute between Vikas’s elder brother and the accused over money. The police maintained that the murder was the result of an altercation between the two accused, and the elder brother of the deceased, over a sum…

Sorry I have just experienced/read too much in real life experiences to not believe in casteism. On the small note: of course the police maintain that it was not true

I'm not saying there's no castism - there's always some sort of discrimination in every society as human beings mostly behave as selfish and unkind due to their insecurities and prejudice. But voices against are also far easier to express and be heard these days. However, if you fuel anger and hatred in you, you're only going to get bitter and restless. which will waste your energies which you could otherwise spend in more meaningful/productive activities that uplift people you care about.

Plus not everything is black and white, no matter how much we want to see it that way. For instance, many Brahmans are also in very bad condition in India. There's a prospective that if you read with an open mind, can be useful. Found that here: https://www.ifih.org/ThePlightofBrahmins.htm

In current time the opportunities are endless. By being positive and productive, we can grow India and the world into a beautiful place, fighting, denigrating and blaming each other will only delay that.

Re: The Importance of India

#146

Post by throwaway384629 » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

ra7 wrote: post #89

throwaway384629 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if India is still a democracy. Media and Judiciary are important pillars of democracy, but they are tightly controlled by the Government in India. Former Chief Justice of India (CJI) Ranjan Gogoi was nominated to the Rajya Sabha by President (Current Government) [1]: A judge dies right before court case hearing of the top leader of the ruling party. [2] An Indian Police Service officer [3] is known for his r…

Throwing in a bunch of complaints (sometimes valid) doesn't mean India is not a democracy. Do the people still choose the government via elections or not? If you don't like policies of the current government, organize the opposition and vote them out. That's not being curtailed by anyone.

And its so wrong from so many ways when top judge of a country is given a huge perk by the ruling party right after his retirement.

Re: The Importance of India

#147

Post by throwaway384629 » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:56 PM UTC

sbmthakur wrote: post #73

sand_castles wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having one-party rule for 60 years is no democracy. You don't have a democracy when the state controls all the TV media. > What is the basis for this The basis for this is the level of grinding poverty in India, live in a Indian slum for a year and then come back to me, and spew the virtues of "democracy" vs economic freedom and rights. Poverty is organic propaganda for extremism and communism.

> You don't have a democracy when the state controls all the TV media. Please share some data points when you make such tall claims. India sure does has Fox and Breitbart equivalent of its own. But that doesn't imply that the state controls 'all the media'.

This article shows a nice summary of topics of news on major tv channels in India

Literally 0 discussion on anything that puts government in bad light. 0 discussion on issues like health, education, unemployment etc. Most of the discussion are on breaking communal harmony (which is in interest of ruling party) and bashing opposition parties.

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/india/14-debates-on-ram-...

Re: The Importance of India

#148

Post by polotics » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:59 PM UTC

TriNetra wrote: post #56

sand_castles wrote: post #8

Demographics is not destiny, if it were true, Pakistan would be more powerful than Russia. How you organize your society matters much more, Japan/SK has fraction of the global population, and somehow maintain their economic importance. India has all the problems of a democracy without much of the benefit. It's more likely that India becomes a CCP style country than stays a democracy. If India was so great it's smalle…

> If India was so great it's smaller immediate neighbor wouldn't be so hostile towards it, and friendly to CCP. I'm assuming by small country you meant Pakistan. If so, this couldn't be further from truth. Pakistan isn't hostile toward India because India isn't great; the reason is in the reason of its creation and a relentless need to justify that reason. Pakistan came into existence based on an idea that Muslims co…

Spot on! Don't you think it's interesting to see the current Chinese ruling class's propaganda on HN always harping on their dreamed up superiority of top-down social organisation? Completely oblivious to the value of chaos. One hope they will learn.

Re: The Importance of India

#149

Post by tsimionescu » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

vijaybritto wrote: post #132

tsimionescu wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant that having a Dalit man be presidett is proof that there has been some progress, same as Obama's presidency in the US. That showed that progress has been made in the battle against racism, even if it certainly doesn't mean that racism is over.

The president is not an elected post but a selected post. They selected a dalit exactly for this reason the person above states. For tokenism. The current govt is a Hindutva ideology based govt meaning they literally believe Dalits are just lower humans. The president from a dalit community was just tokenism.

Oh, OK, I wasn't aware, sorry. Thanks for the explanation!

Re: The Importance of India

#150

Post by polotics » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

SJetKaran wrote: post #142

sand_castles wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you have mentioned is true, but it misses the point. India needs to go through a period of "communism" to get anywhere, the type of land reform needed to reduce poverty won't happen without somebody brutal enough to go against the interests of the wealthy in India. India is still mostly a feudal society, that was thrust into the 20th Century from the 16th Century. It was robbed of 4 centuries of social cha…

Any comparison of India with China generally leads to this sort of conclusions. If India and China were students in a class, China would be the topper of the class. India is a good student, just not a topper. India has been making great progress on most fronts, just not as big leaps as China did.

Well yeah sure, except China is the student that's cheating by faking their grade results. But seriously, how can you call a country's rulers that were so stupid as to implement the one child policy, inclusive of forced abortions, ""winning"" ???