Live data from Hacker News

Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

members.tortoisemedia.com

141–150 of 179 posts

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#141
post #116
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shift your perspective. YouTube is a video distribution service provider and one of many ways to publish a video. You can choose to publish on YouTube, but you don’t have the right to compel YouTube to do business with you anymore than a coffee shop has a right to compel their current coffee roaster to do business with them. If YouTube cancels their contract with you, they’ve taken away your ability to make a living…

Maybe we should make you persona non grata at the three largest supermarket chains in your area, plus Walmart and Amazon. You can get your meals at Burger King and 7-11.

What consequences are appropriate for someone acting badly enough to get specifically, independently targeted by that many major local businesses and two massive transnational corporations?

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs described the whole point to the design: he wanted people to frequently bump into each other, rather than being hidden away in private offices. He noted it was one of his favorite aspects of the Pixar office. It's strange that anybody would blame Jony Ive for a design that Jobs chose. Jobs took what he thought worked about Pixar's office to spur creativity & innovation, and used it in building the new Appl…

> Steve Jobs described the whole point to the design: he wanted people to frequently bump into each other, rather than being hidden away in private offices. He noted it was one of his favorite aspects of the Pixar office. It's strange that anybody would blame Jony Ive for a design that Jobs chose. Jobs took what he thought worked about Pixar's office to spur creativity & innovation, and used it in building the new Ap…

I'll tell you as someone in a large IT organization creating a new paradigm for us re: public cloud vs. private: Collaboration and communication are huge. Absolutely critical that people are talking more often than not. It's decision making and design at that point, not just DevSecOps.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#143
post #80

So do several religions. As well as mafioso or cartels. I think of these groups as "states-in-waiting." Should their regional government grow too corrupt or too weak, they fill the void. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-net-worth-of-the-Catholic-... [2] https://fox13now.com/2018/05/30/mormonleaks-lds-church-contr... [3] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2660520/joaquin-el-chapo-guzma...

Given the amount of money, employees and resources these companies have, you can see that they are becoming and behaving like independent pseudo-nation states.

Each of these companies (FAAMNG) apparently are more worth or near worth the GDP of Luxembourg and other developed countries and their businesses are built like an entire economy.

There are also do’s and don’ts with some of them i.e rules that one citizen should follow. Don’t touch/hack google3 or you will be arrested. Thinking about virtualising macOS/iOS? You will be swiftly dealt with the Supreme Court of Apple Inc, You disagree with Mr. Zuckerberg on his platform? You will be expeditiously banned and charged with high treason with your real name, address, phone no. set to public for the whole world to shame you and list goes on.

Facebook has a population of 3B people and still calls it a community. If it were a country, that’s like the population of China and India put together. They have a town square, news, emergency services and more. The problem is it’s founding member Emperor Zuckerberg still doesn’t understand privacy and trust with its users despite the scandals of the 2010s. If it were a nation state, then it would be like an authoritarian one.

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the People’s Republic of Silicon Valley.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs described the whole point to the design: he wanted people to frequently bump into each other, rather than being hidden away in private offices. He noted it was one of his favorite aspects of the Pixar office. It's strange that anybody would blame Jony Ive for a design that Jobs chose. Jobs took what he thought worked about Pixar's office to spur creativity & innovation, and used it in building the new Appl…

> Steve Jobs described the whole point to the design: he wanted people to frequently bump into each other, rather than being hidden away in private offices. He noted it was one of his favorite aspects of the Pixar office. It's strange that anybody would blame Jony Ive for a design that Jobs chose. Jobs took what he thought worked about Pixar's office to spur creativity & innovation, and used it in building the new Ap…

This is a good point, but as I understand it, it's the designers who run the show at Apple.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#145
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're honing in on a specific definition of violence, ignoring its historic colloquial usages. People make their own choices about who to do business with and how to go about their business More attempts to pin the narrative as a business transaction while ignoring the larger implications of phenomena such as deplatformization in public forums operated by unscrupulous corporations who control access to their audienc…

I’m sorry you had that experience on Facebook. I wish I could tell you that kind of thing is surprising or unexpected, but unfortunately it isn’t either of those things these days. I hope you’re doing alright and that you’re able to put it behind you. As for violence, I standby what is the more useful and regular definition. There may be useful non-physical extensions in colloquial usage, but the word itself has conn…

>As for violence, I standby what is the more useful and regular definition.

Often, certain commonplace words become terms of art within the disciplines which study them[1][2]. For example, "kind" or "type" or "resistance" take on special meanings within mathematics and computer science. While these terms are clearly derived from their commonplace definitions, they either work alongside the original meaning (such as in "resistance") or they replace it ("kind").

Scholarship dating to about 1980 describes two forms of violence, objective and subjective. Subjective violence is very easy to spot, it involves physical contact. Objective violence, also related to systemic violence, is not: it's the backdrop against which we measure subjective violence[0]. This is not restricted to the description of society as violent. Go onto Google Scholar and search "systemic violence" - the term is used to describe security searches of children at schools, abusive familial relationships, drug markets, and a plethora of other things.

[0] "As Žižek would argue, we consistently overlook the objective or "symbolic" violenc eembodied in language and its forms, i.e. democratic state's monopoly on legitimate violence. He asserts that "subjective and objective violence cannot be perceived from the same standpoint: subjective violence is experienced as such against the background of the non-violent zero-level, asa perturbation of the “normal” peaceful state of things; however, objective violence is precisely theviolence sustaining this “normal” state of things. Objective violence is invisible since it sustains thevery zero-level standard against which we perceive something as [visible] violence – in order to perceive it, one has to perform a kind of parallax shift"."

[1] "One of the great controversies in defining violence pertains to its scope. Vorobej opts from the outset for a wider concept of violence and not for restricting it to cases of direct physical harm. With these cases and the more commonsensical notion of interpersonal violence the analysis begins. The first definition is borrowed from the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), to which he adds apparently more sophisticated variations, for example from James Childress, Robert Holmes, or the WHO, before finally returning to the OED as the most useful paradigmatic definition for this type of approach to violence: "Violence is the exercise of physical force as to inflict injury on or damage to persons or properties" (6). After having worked through a series of ambiguities of the definition and questions that arise from it, Vorobej finally rightly problematizes this approach for its one-sidedness. Interpersonal violence "emphasizes what individuals do to others, at the cost of ignoring what happens to people" (52)."

[2] https://www.rep.routledge.com/articles/thematic/violence/v-1

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#146
post #72

Problem is that states usually have constitutional safeguards that keep a safe balance of power between citizen and state. Not so with these companies. Step out of line and they can unperson you like that, and you can't vote on their leadership. And increasingly entire livelihoods and social existences are tied into them. This is why you're seeing states start to get so aggressive with them. The EU fining billions ou…

The difference between a sovereign nation-state and a corporation is that a nation-state has a legal monopoly on sanctioned violence within their jurisdiction. Those constitutional safeguards are necessary because otherwise they could search, seize, detain, arrest, imprison, torture and kill with impunity. A tech company can deplatform you with impunity, but they’re not inflicting any real violence in the process. Co…

Just want to point out that this is true today in the USA and most developed nations, but there was definitely a time when corporations had armies and navies (e.g. Dutch East India Company times). Corporations, not government, were also the main driver of the Atlantic slave trade.

Of course this was true at the time because of a power vacuum, physical security is a requirement to doing business–at the end of the day someone has to hold the gun.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#147
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry you had that experience on Facebook. I wish I could tell you that kind of thing is surprising or unexpected, but unfortunately it isn’t either of those things these days. I hope you’re doing alright and that you’re able to put it behind you. As for violence, I standby what is the more useful and regular definition. There may be useful non-physical extensions in colloquial usage, but the word itself has conn…

>As for violence, I standby what is the more useful and regular definition. Often, certain commonplace words become terms of art within the disciplines which study them[1][2]. For example, "kind" or "type" or "resistance" take on special meanings within mathematics and computer science. While these terms are clearly derived from their commonplace definitions, they either work alongside the original meaning (such as i…

I’ll bite and acknowledge there might be a dimension to violence that I am overlooking, however, every example of objective violence you gave except “drug markets” appears to align perfectly at face value with the definition of violence I gave earlier: a forceful violation of one’s person or property. Probably “drug markets” would too, I’m just not altogether sure what element of a drug market you mean since there wasn’t a verb attached.

I’ll look for the full paper from your link, it looks interesting, but that will have to wait until the morning. Same with your Google Scholar search, you’ve hooked me.

In the mean time, let me ask you if the difference between subjective and objective violence looks like this: Subjective violence would be the act of a pimp slapping a prostitute within his service, and objective violence would be the entire social apparatus around pimping which enables him to find women who are willing (in this example I’m assuming willing to prevent this from branching into a discussion on slavery and the various gradations of prostitution) to work under him as prostitutes in what is I assume would be considered ultimately a form of violence that works against them and women in general?

Or alternatively, a prison might be a violent place to be in, and thus is subjectively violent, but the existence and operation of the prison is objectively violent?

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#148
post #80

So do several religions. As well as mafioso or cartels. I think of these groups as "states-in-waiting." Should their regional government grow too corrupt or too weak, they fill the void. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-net-worth-of-the-Catholic-... [2] https://fox13now.com/2018/05/30/mormonleaks-lds-church-contr... [3] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2660520/joaquin-el-chapo-guzma...

To transition into something resembling a government would not be very on brand for Apple. If anything they seem likely to blast off into space and colonize Mars with all the cash they've mined and stockpiled here.

A place inhospitable to life? Yeah, this sounds a great plan to waste all their resources...

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#149
post #143
post #80

So do several religions. As well as mafioso or cartels. I think of these groups as "states-in-waiting." Should their regional government grow too corrupt or too weak, they fill the void. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-net-worth-of-the-Catholic-... [2] https://fox13now.com/2018/05/30/mormonleaks-lds-church-contr... [3] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2660520/joaquin-el-chapo-guzma...

Given the amount of money, employees and resources these companies have, you can see that they are becoming and behaving like independent pseudo-nation states. Each of these companies (FAAMNG) apparently are more worth or near worth the GDP of Luxembourg and other developed countries and their businesses are built like an entire economy. There are also do’s and don’ts with some of them i.e rules that one citizen shou…

I understand the GAFAM, but is Netflix even in the same ballpark? (It's also extremely dependent on Hollywood, isn't it?) And Microsoft isn't in the Silicon Valley...

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#150
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should this, should that. I have heard this so many times. If you are a app developer and became successful on the Google playstore, but not on iTunes store then who are you to say that you should never put all your eggs into a single basket. This would never be a deliberate choice. Fact is, that many business lost everything due dragonic decisions made by big tech companies. Unacceptable. That's why those companies…

Even if YouTube (or the Play Store) was its own entity, they can still prevent you from publishing on their platforms on a whim. You solve nothing by breaking them up. Don’t hold your breath on Europe coming up with dominant consumer tech anytime soon.

Indeed, they need to be either shut down, or banned in Europe. You can't let companies have more power than nation-states !
Post reply on HN