If you must run Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#141

Post by lysp » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:02 AM UTC

squarefoot wrote: post #140

Before I abandoned the Windows ecosystem, I loved Ninite ( https://ninite.com/ ). It repackages most well known free software creating a single installer which will contain all of them, minus bloatware, adware, toolbars etc, so that one can replicate identical installs of the same software on several machines very easily and much faster. Another interesting repository was http://www.aplusfreeware.com/last_freeware_ve…

Ninite also has an updater.

It checks for all apps (that it knows about) and if they are out of date can silently install the latest version of all apps at once in 2-3 clicks.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#142

Post by jevgeni » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

vondur wrote: post #124

jevgeni wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: users are mostly fine with telemetry on average. Users ARE compensated by a cheaper OS license in case of Windows 10.

How are users “compensated” with a cheaper OS licenses in Windows 10. Most everyone uses the OS included with their device and will rarely pay for an update.

It doesn’t mean it’s free.

When you buy a Mac Book you usually dish out around 1500 USD at the very least, where the cost of materials is at best 1/3 of that. You mostly pay for the design, the OS and the privilege.

You can get a PC with Windows 10 Home Edition for 400 USD or so. The implied price point for the OS is way lower.

The economic decision here (re ads) is to be able to make some money on the mass low-end market, while still being able to develop a decent OS.

Case in point: Microsoft Surface Book, which runs at about 2000 USD and is a product comparable to Apple’s has no ads.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#143

Post by bgdnyxbjx » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #129

jevgeni wrote: post #118

Could everyone chill with this already? We get it, you’re super clever and super privacy conscious. Now let people enjoy the products they like.

It’s almost like saying to a rape victim, “Yada-yada, we get it. Couldn’t you just relax and enjoy it?”

Holy hell did you just compare telemetry to rape?

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#144

Post by jevgeni » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:13 AM UTC

bgdnyxbjx wrote: post #143

Koshkin wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost like saying to a rape victim, “Yada-yada, we get it. Couldn’t you just relax and enjoy it?”

Holy hell did you just compare telemetry to rape?

Thank you!

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#145

Post by jevgeni » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:16 AM UTC

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #128

jevgeni wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS is way more expensive as well. Compare it with Windows 10 Pro for a fairer price point and ads are not a problem all of a sudden.

How is it more expensive. The last macOS I had to pay for was mountain lion. That was 10.8. I get that I have to buy a mac to get the os but once I have it, I get the most recent version of macOS for free from the AppStore. https://www.apple.com/shop/help/downloadable_software

The price is included in the price of the whole product.

I mean, it’s not the price of materials that dominate Apple’s pricing. And you actually have to pay money to people developing the OS. So no, it’s not free.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#146

Post by IloveHN84 » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:20 AM UTC

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #128

jevgeni wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS is way more expensive as well. Compare it with Windows 10 Pro for a fairer price point and ads are not a problem all of a sudden.

How is it more expensive. The last macOS I had to pay for was mountain lion. That was 10.8. I get that I have to buy a mac to get the os but once I have it, I get the most recent version of macOS for free from the AppStore. https://www.apple.com/shop/help/downloadable_software

The overpriced hardware (usually the same of other OEMs, like DELL) is including the price of the OS itself.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#147

Post by jevgeni » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:20 AM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #121

jevgeni wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously: we don’t care. Apple and Microsoft do roughly an equal amount of telemetry. Ubuntu has telemetry. Obviously most people are fine with telemetry. Apple charges WAY more for its OS than Microsoft does for Windows 10 Home Edition. Don’t want adds? Buy the Pro version. This “apples are better than oranges” indignation about Windows 10 is getting old. Don’t like it? Fine. Let other people enjoy things they like…

Things get pushed on people, and most are not even aware enough for the question "do they care?" to even become meaningful. We're moving from sofware you run without any interference to subscription and surveillance models, and that's not because users want that, that's not "what they like", they don't have an easy way to get what they do like while also being treated ethically.

They have enough alternatives. Free alternatives at that! If they don’t switch, then that’s their choice and they are obviously fine with it.

The whole “Windows telemetry bad” meme is mostly just an excuse for a flame war.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#148

Post by throwaway-9320 » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:28 AM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #122

habitue wrote: post #106

I feel like there's this continuum: Linux: Free, Doesn't spy on you MacOS: Costs money, Doesn't spy on you ChromeOS: Free, Spies on you Windows: Costs money, Spies on you

You must be kidding on Linux not spying on you. The ubuntu start menu is sending everything you type to the internet and filling the menus with ads.

[citation needed]

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#149

Post by mythrwy » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:33 AM UTC

The investments I've made in learning Linux well have paid off so many times over. Like VIM, there is a hump, some annoyance and then you get all your time back invested and so much more.

At this point I find Windows so hideously unpleasant I believe if I were forced to use it as a daily driver I'd go into another line of work. Life is too short to be annoyed all day and not have control over your surroundings.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#150

Post by PavlovsCat » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:56 AM UTC

jevgeni wrote: post #147

PavlovsCat wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things get pushed on people, and most are not even aware enough for the question "do they care?" to even become meaningful. We're moving from sofware you run without any interference to subscription and surveillance models, and that's not because users want that, that's not "what they like", they don't have an easy way to get what they do like while also being treated ethically.

They have enough alternatives. Free alternatives at that! If they don’t switch, then that’s their choice and they are obviously fine with it. The whole “Windows telemetry bad” meme is mostly just an excuse for a flame war.

No, being aware of something is the prerequisite of being fine with something. And for people who just walk into to a store and buy a computer with preinstalled OS, telemetry is pretty much the default, as you said previously.

I guess you could say companies are obviously afraid of offering the choice, of offering the same product with and without telemetry, clearly labeled.

> The whole “Windows telemetry bad” meme is mostly just an excuse for a flame war.

Why are you putting such mocking words into my mouth? I'm not saying "Windows telemetry bad", I'm saying what I'm saying.