Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#141

Post by dahart » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

> I am from a third world country, so I won't be able alter the contract clauses.

I don’t think this is true. You can always request changes in the contract, and you should consider it. It may seem expensive, but worth it, if you have the money to have your own lawyer read your contract and propose modifications that suit you. It may also reveal to you that parts of your contract were unenforceable.

In my experience, it hasn’t hurt me or anyone I know who’s negotiated their contract. In some cases, because it’s somewhat rare for people to negotiate the non-compete terms, it made me look more confident and desirable than other candidates.

BTW, there is no reason you can’t do this long after being hired and after signing your employment agreement. Companies and lawyers can and do make addenda after the fact all the time.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#142

Post by dahart » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

> what can I do while employed to have a better chance of succeeding when I do start a company?

Market research! If there was one single thing I should have done more of before quitting my job to start a company it was making sure people would buy what I was going to build. If there was one single thing I should have done less of before quitting my job it’s spending time building something I wasn’t sure people would buy.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#143

Post by sturmeh » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

Before you do any development, ask legal for a written exclusion for your specific project.

Do not rely on the fact it may not apply, if your idea generates millions, you can be certain they'll manage to draw a connection.

If they can't/won't provide one, you either quit and work on it, or don't.

What they can't seize from you is your thoughts, unless again you're silly enough to begin development without doing the above.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#144

Post by onesmallcoin » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

sturmeh wrote: post #143

Before you do any development, ask legal for a written exclusion for your specific project. Do not rely on the fact it may not apply, if your idea generates millions, you can be certain they'll manage to draw a connection. If they can't/won't provide one, you either quit and work on it, or don't. What they can't seize from you is your thoughts, unless again you're silly enough to begin development without doing the a…

It almost sounds like the kind of place where if you were to' try too pull something like that that it would go down fine, and you'd have your coworkers chatting to you about it's architecture on lunchbreak and then six months down the track you'll find your company releasing the same product

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#145

Post by agentofoblivion » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

I don’t think many of these comments are realistic. I’m truth, these clauses are likely defensive, particularly for tech companies. There is an almost 100% chance that if you started a company and left your job, your company will not register your coming or going in the slightest. If you’re some famous person that ends up starting some billion dollar company, and it was in an area highly relevant to your job, you might have a problem. Or if you try to sue them to stop doing something you created while employed for them. But if you’re just a regular person that starts some business that’s moderately successful (already an unlikely scenario), everything is going to be fine. It will likely take you YEARS and YEARS of toiling in obscurity before you come even close to profitability, and that’s if you’re lucky. You think some big tech company is even going to remember you? Even if you build a multimillion dollar business, that’s a drop in the bucket for them, not to mention legal fees, difficulty of enforcing the dubious contract, and the bad PR of squashing a former employee’s business.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#146

Post by AstroChimpHam » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

Save money. Get a job that pays as much as possible, even if it has shitty clauses around side projects, and just save as much money as you can. When you have 1-2 years of nest egg saved up (might be eating ramen, etc), then quit and go work on your company.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#147

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #72

The clauses I have seen attempt to claim all intellectual work regardless of when it was done or whether it was related to the job. To me, this is an indication that we truly have not progressed beyond wage slavery. I believe such clauses should be illegal. I think one thing we might be able to do is to create a list of companies that have blanket clauses like this and then some people (not most) will have the luxury…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#148

Post by Grustaf » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

jt2190 wrote: post #117

Grustaf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Why would the company care what he does in his free time? Assuming he is not using company IP or working on company time, it should be completely up to him. Sure, the company will not want him to suddenly leave to launch his company, but the way to combat that is by making the position more attractive, and screening for it when hiring. The American view on labour seems quite similar to slavery.

The simple answer is that the employer needs a clear picture of what they own. Let’s say you’re a scientist. Your employer sets you up in a lab (that you could never afford on your own) and gives you the task of solving a problem that, if solved, would be worth millions to the company. One night you go home thinking about the tough problem. The next morning at home you have a shower and suddenly you realize the solut…

Clearly anything related to company IP belongs to the company, even if you come up with it in the evening.

I am of course talking about innovations or just work done in unrelated areas, while employed.

The idea that an employer owns everything you create is offensive to human dignity and happily that is not how it works in Europe.

You are even encouraged to start your own company, in some countries you have a legally enshrined right to take a LOA for six months and work on your business, and then come back to your old employer.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#149

Post by opportune » Mon, May 27, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

fergie wrote: post #58

> a bunch of contract clauses that basically lets the company own all IP while employed. Probably the most practical solution here is to simply disregard this clause in the contract. Breaching such a clause would be a civil, not a criminal offense, and it is unlikely that a civil complaint would be even considered unless there was a lot of money at stake, and it was easy/cheap to prove/uphold. In order for it to be u…

If it's not a pure tech company I think you can disregard it simply because it's not worth the effort / bad PR for your employer to pursue it. For example I'm currently employed by big tech co and am dabbling with an ecommerce business. Why would my employer subject themselves to probably hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to claim a stake in a processed food startup? Even if the business is worth like 1M-10MM (it's not, maybe it could be in the future, but unlikely) why would they risk hurting their ability to attract talent to make what looks like a rounding error to the organizational budget?

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#150

Post by encoderer » Mon, May 27, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

Use your own time, equipment and ideas. Stay out of your employer’s market. If you are launching publicly tell your manager so they aren’t surprised if THEIR manager asks them.

This is a growth opportunity that will often make you more effective at your day job.

Best of luck.