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Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

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Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#141

Post by edejong »

jachee wrote: post #126
edejong wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answering for GP: 1. Education (how to form solid arguments and how to view topics from multiple sides) 2. Plurifomity. By combining people from different social-economic groups. Basically an anti divide and conquer which state sponsored media have driven us towards. 3. Acceptance. Everyone picks their fruits of freedom of speech. Just because the fruits of one are the pains of others does not mean we should throw th…

The "problem" with your #2 is that only one side wants that. The other side fears losing their privilege/capital/power/reputation and cares not a whit for those they consider sub-human. Putting some foxes into the henhouse won't go well for the hens when it's dinner time.

Well, obviously we can effect change outside of the social networks. We can invite people into dialogues. We can provide them with vision and narrative based on higher principles.

Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#142

Post by edejong »

Gatsky wrote: post #124
edejong wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answering for GP: 1. Education (how to form solid arguments and how to view topics from multiple sides) 2. Plurifomity. By combining people from different social-economic groups. Basically an anti divide and conquer which state sponsored media have driven us towards. 3. Acceptance. Everyone picks their fruits of freedom of speech. Just because the fruits of one are the pains of others does not mean we should throw th…

This is impossibly naive. Large social media companies are highly incentivised to derail any of these utopian efforts.

All if these ‘utopian‘ concepts have been successfully implemented in the past by governments and social organizations. The only naive part of my narrative is if we expect the change to come from the social networks. We need to step outside of that sphere and influence via other channels such as work, sports, spiritual life, books and the public sphere.

Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#143

Post by yifanl »

DevKoala wrote: post #89
HNthrow22 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except at the moment we're dealing with highly organized paid misinformation campaigns and widespread propaganda under the guise of free speech. This will not be popular on Hn but in my opinion holding users and platforms responsible for the messages they distribute to millions is the inevitable evolution and future of social media, society has demonstrated the inability to responsibly handle anonymous unchecked mass…

I strongly disagree. There are many ways to combat misinformation that do not involve censorship. There is nothing to applaud about oppression driven government censorship.

If I may use a bit of reduction, isn't the logical conclusion of freedom of speech that truth simply doesn't matter?

If every idea is acceptable, and I cannot face consequences for anything I say, then what difference is there between the statements "Apples are fruit" and "Apples are the square root of 45"?

Certainly, that's not the level of free speech we're at, but all this clamouring for unrestricted free speech makes me almost as worried as the threat of censorship.

Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#144

Post by yorwba »

tonylinn wrote: post #92
Teknoman117 wrote: post #91

> it is not allowed, as this article lists, to post “politically sensitive information”, “spread rumors,” “bring news about Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan that has not been reported by official news channels,” Well that's just Orwellian...

Those words are never in the Chinese report being referenced, and I have to call out this article being just a lie

Maybe they changed the link, but now it's definitely there:

1、政治敏感话题不发 don't post on politically sensitive topics

2、不信谣不传谣 don't believe rumors, don't spread rumors

3、所谓的内部资料不发 don't post so-called internal information

4、涉黄、涉毒、涉爆等不发 don't post content involving pornography, illegal drugs or explosives etc.

5、有关港澳台新闻在官方网站未发布前不发 don't post news about Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan before it has been reported by official websites

6、军事资料不发 don't post military information

7、有关涉及国家机密文件不发 don't post state secrets

8、来源不明的疑似伪造的黑警辱警的小视频不发 don't post suspected fake videos of unclear origin that smear the police (search 南应 on YouTube for a recent example of what's probably meant by this)

9、其他违反相关法律法规的信息不发 don't post other information that violates related laws or regulations

Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#145

Post by d0100 »

HNthrow22 wrote: post #49
dev_dull wrote: post #34

The extremely strong freedom of speech laws we have in the US is definitely something we got right. Reading things like this make me really grateful about those protections.

except at the moment we're dealing with highly organized paid misinformation campaigns and widespread propaganda under the guise of free speech. This will not be popular on Hn but in my opinion holding users and platforms responsible for the messages they distribute to millions is the inevitable evolution and future of social media, society has demonstrated the inability to responsibly handle anonymous unchecked mass…

Still better than highly organized misinformation campaigns that you must agree with or go to jail, forced labour camps or death

Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#146

Post by Gatsky »

edejong wrote: post #142
Gatsky wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is impossibly naive. Large social media companies are highly incentivised to derail any of these utopian efforts.

All if these ‘utopian‘ concepts have been successfully implemented in the past by governments and social organizations. The only naive part of my narrative is if we expect the change to come from the social networks. We need to step outside of that sphere and influence via other channels such as work, sports, spiritual life, books and the public sphere.

I think the best example to consider is the tobacco industry. Smoking is by any measure a scourge on society. Untold numbers of people have suffered and died because of it. Healthcare systems haemorrhage money they don’t have treating conditions that basically don’t exist without smoking.

The tobacco industry pulled every trick in the book to maintain their own interests. Society spends even more money on public messaging, education etc etc to try and reduce smoking rates.

Do we want more of the same, but with social media this time? They do us harm. The rule is we do not let anyone make money by doing us harm.

Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#147

Post by barkingtoad »

astonex wrote: post #32
barkingtoad wrote: post #17

In the UK you can be arrested for teaching your girlfriend's pug to heil as a joke.

While the prosecution was dumb (it was clearly a joke), he did turn out to be a huge right wing racist anyway

After this culture war is over, the first people in the hole will be the actual right wing racists

The second people in the hole will be left wing people throwing that accusation around at any spare target.

The leftist McCarthyists need to go.

Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#148

Post by satvikpendem »

pmontra wrote: post #107
thaumasiotes wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women getting together is fine. Not once have groups of women ever been known to rebel against the government. Were you also attributing "It's better to let things burn" to me personally?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette > A suffragette was a member of militant women's organisations in the early 20th century who, under the banner "Votes for Women", fought for the right to vote in public elections, known as women's suffrage. > The suffragettes heckled politicians, tried to storm parliament, were attacked and sexually assaulted during battles with the police, chained themselves to railings, s…

I assume the commentor you were replying to was being sarcastic.

Re: Chinese Media Warn WeChat Admins: "You Can Be Arrested for Group Chat"

#149

Post by antepodius »

im3w1l wrote: post #109
ycombonator wrote: post #69

Censorship coming soon to a neighborhood near you. You don’t have to look too far to point fingers at censorship. Our Social Media overlords just banned “conspiracy theorists”. What if I like watching conspiracy theories for the heck of it because the MSM is nauseating merchant of “truth”.

My rule of thumb is that people who get banned for saying "out there" stuff are controlled opposition and people who get banned for saying common sense and obvious stuff are real opposition.

What's common sense and what's out there depends on the reader.
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