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Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

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Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#141

Post by levi-turner »

smallgovt wrote: post #96
zachguo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you are referring to Chinese students. But the reality is that SAT and GRE are stupidly easy, especially math. Almost every Chinese student I know achieved full score in GRE math, and yes, more than half of them spoke broken English.

I'm in no way implying my anecdata is conclusive, but I'm mainly suspicious of the verbal scores. And, if the verbal section of the SAT is stupidly easy, I guess I'm stupid, shucks :(.

Counter anecdote: college roommate who grew up the bulk of his life in mainland China had major problems with spoken English but his written English was fantastic. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#142

Post by spydum »

anyfoo wrote: post #137
spydum wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to admit my American ignorance here, but outside of music schools I cannot think of any major elite universities outside of maybe oxford and Cambridge? I’m curious if Europeans could name a few Ivy League American universities? Maybe I’m the uncultured exception, but I don’t think most Americans even talk about foreign universities (I have no doubt to our own disadvantage)

You might not have heard about European universities (though maybe that's just because they tend to be named by city, so ETH Zürich, Paris etc. doesn't stick as a university name like "Harvard" and "Yale" do), but you probably have heard from people at those universities: Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, Werner Heisenberg, Nils Bohr, ... I didn't pick contemporary names because the closer you get to today, the less like…

In fact, when making this post - max planck institute and cern so on came to mind, but was not confident it was a schools vs research Institute ? Certainly there is no shortage of great minds from universities around the world, it’s just they don’t seem to nearly have the US BRAND awareness

* edit: on second thought i suppose I am not adequately equipped to talk about global brand awareness as it originally stated. Curious how other countries see collegiate prestige outside of their own or if US colleges have some extra factor?

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#143

Post by mrep »

adamnemecek wrote: post #129
mrep wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how they grade. I went to Purdue and pretty much every math and CS class was bell curved around a C and D's aren't passing grades which was pretty brutal and a very effective form of weeding out people since a portion of each class is forced to retake it. Hence why Purdue frequently rates as one of the hardest grading colleges. Much easier to get into then the ivy leagues though.

> a very effective form of weeding out people since a portion of each class is forced to retake it This seems really pointless.

I don't know. Purdue is much easier to get into then IVY league schools and yet ranks better in CS than 3/8 of the IVY league, tied with one, and really isn't far below than the other 4 according to US News [0]. Based on my assumption that Purdue is highly rated because people who graduate were the top X% of students and others were weeded out or re-took classes to learn the material better, would you rather have the filtering/weeding_out for "better" students be done at the high_school->college choice level like the IVY leagues which are highly selective but grade inflate or the people who graduate from college learning the material you probably require for the job where grading is tough?

[0]: https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-sch...

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#144

Post by adamnemecek »

mrep wrote: post #143
adamnemecek wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a very effective form of weeding out people since a portion of each class is forced to retake it This seems really pointless.

I don't know. Purdue is much easier to get into then IVY league schools and yet ranks better in CS than 3/8 of the IVY league, tied with one, and really isn't far below than the other 4 according to US News [0]. Based on my assumption that Purdue is highly rated because people who graduate were the top X% of students and others were weeded out or re-took classes to learn the material better, would you rather have the…

I wouldn't look at the school? A 10-minute convo tells you more than an average that you have no context for.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#145

Post by mrep »

adamnemecek wrote: post #144
mrep wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Purdue is much easier to get into then IVY league schools and yet ranks better in CS than 3/8 of the IVY league, tied with one, and really isn't far below than the other 4 according to US News [0]. Based on my assumption that Purdue is highly rated because people who graduate were the top X% of students and others were weeded out or re-took classes to learn the material better, would you rather have the…

I wouldn't look at the school? A 10-minute convo tells you more than an average that you have no context for.

I'm not a recruiter so take this with a grain of salt, but I believe school/GPA is highly used for screening resumes for new grads. AFAIK, top companies get a ridiculous amount of resumes and they need some way to prioritize them without spending 10 minute conversations with each and every person that applies.

Can any recruiter comment here on school/GPA importance on resumes for newly grads?

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#146

Post by mLuby »

anyfoo wrote: post #128
mLuby wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because riches and prestige are often found in the same family, so a school or company with an aggregation of such families' progeny is able to reflect some of their shine. Not saying it's a morally correct, but that's 's how (American) society works. We aren't good at predicting a child's success so we fall back on historical (familial) data.

I really don't get how that can reasonably be considered a better predictor of a successful university degree than previous grades and application tests, without some serious mental gymnastics.

It's not that hard. Assume Richie Rich and Freckles Friendly are innately equally good students.

Freckles almost certainly has additional stressors in his life, since he maintains his scholarship(s), works outside of class, frets over his student loans, and has to be careful how he spends what little cash he has.

In contrast, Richie has a pretty carefree existence which he likely spends developing relationships with other rich kids. He can study if he needs to, pay for private tutors, etc.

Plus, from the perspective of University The Business™, Richie is more likely to inherit wealth and business opportunities that make him more likely to donate to the school in the future; he's a better investment than Freckles.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#147

Post by ajmurmann »

anyfoo wrote: post #137
spydum wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to admit my American ignorance here, but outside of music schools I cannot think of any major elite universities outside of maybe oxford and Cambridge? I’m curious if Europeans could name a few Ivy League American universities? Maybe I’m the uncultured exception, but I don’t think most Americans even talk about foreign universities (I have no doubt to our own disadvantage)

You might not have heard about European universities (though maybe that's just because they tend to be named by city, so ETH Zürich, Paris etc. doesn't stick as a university name like "Harvard" and "Yale" do), but you probably have heard from people at those universities: Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, Werner Heisenberg, Nils Bohr, ... I didn't pick contemporary names because the closer you get to today, the less like…

Don't underestimate the impact of US cultural imperialism. We've probably all seem shows or movies where some kid wants to get into Yale or Harvard. How many European movies do people see in the US?

I think another factor is that the admission system is different. I only know about Germany, but you don't have to apply in the same way at a university and your grades from school are what matters there isn't some additional test like GRE or SAT. So it plays less of a role culturally and has thus less opportunity to be a topic at all in shows and movies even if Americans were to drown in European media.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#148

Post by ajmurmann »

jonny_eh wrote: post #37
LanceH wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These universities don't have the prestige without the legacy admissions (and alumni donors). There are tons of universities, but it's hard to say anyone "deserves" a spot over someone's family who helped build it.

How is a school prestigious by allowing undeserving[1] rich kids in? [1] In the sense that they're not academically or athletically at the top of the heap.

A huge value of attending writ elite US universities lies in the network you get to build. While it's nice to have future Nobell Price laureates in your network it's also nice to have heirs to bring late family fortunes that also might already bring very good family connections to the table.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#149

Post by SlumptonFidget »

grecy wrote: post #66

American society functions on bribery, and anyone that thinks otherwise simply has their eyes closed. "Contributing" to a congressman is literally giving them money so they make decisions favorable to you. That is identical to me giving a policeman $50 to look the other way. Unlimited campaign contributions is just newspeak for "legal bribery".

Your "legal bribery" is another's first amendment right to support someone else's candidacy. Or so I was once told.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#150

Post by adharmad »

spydum wrote: post #126
anyfoo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do European universities, many of them very prestigious and much, much older than American ones, base their admission on grades and tests? Given that in most European countries (I think, it'd definitely the case in Germany) tuition isn't a thing either, one can reasonably conclude that admission to an elite university is linked to academic prowess, at least to a higher degree than American universities. I we…

Have to admit my American ignorance here, but outside of music schools I cannot think of any major elite universities outside of maybe oxford and Cambridge? I’m curious if Europeans could name a few Ivy League American universities? Maybe I’m the uncultured exception, but I don’t think most Americans even talk about foreign universities (I have no doubt to our own disadvantage)

Imperial college, LSE, Groningen, Moscow Univ, Utrech
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