How is this any different from the what wait/serving staff experience. Most jobs are a flat wage (possibly minimum) and tips. It's always like that and still is. Maybe, the next time you leave a dollar tip for your server, you'll think again.
Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
141–150 of 718 posts
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, personally, when I go to mcdonalds, I like to pay the guy at the register, the people cooking, the manager, and the unfortunate individual on trash duty all separately. Additionally, I refuse (on basic principle) to eat at any restaurant where I haven't mapped out their entire supply infrastructure. I made myself an app that keeps track of how much I spend at each of these restaurants in any given month and then…
“the customer can decide how much he wants to pay everybody in the supply chain” sounds a bit to too much like a possible pitch for a startup.
I mean, if that utility of every part of the supply chain was actually surfaced and you could make payments directly to parts of the supply chain, I could see trying that business model out as a consumer.
Whats happening here is that companies have figured out they can just extract value out of a subset of their employees and pass the cost onto their customers by manipulating social norms.
If I'm paying the worker directly they should be treated like a contractor, but the companies want the control of hiring an employee and the responsibilities of hiring a contractor
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#143This is why the tipping system in the US is absurd. The whole "you must tip because they get paid peanuts" argument is a circular logic. How about making sure that the worker gets paid fairly by their employer and customers can then optionally tip for outstanding service?
That's not the logic behind the tipping system. It's, "tipping incentives employees to perform well because they'll make more money for doing a better job". It doesn't work that way either, but that's the rationale. Forcing people to tip to ensure people get paid enough money is a consequence of the system, not the reasoning why the system is implemented.
As with many things in a America tipping started as a good idea, it was then taken too far and turned into a rather draconian setup where everybody is caught in a system you can't get out of.
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's exactly what they want you to think, and that's why this whole tipping nonsense continues. If you stop tipping, Workers will not accept to work for low wages anymore. Bu continuing to tip, you indirectly hurt workers.
>Workers will not accept to work for low wages anymore. Right, because most service workers have a plethora of options, right? Tipping is a social construct that I'm fine with. I'm also open to the argument against it. I don't think it should give employers a pass on paying minimum wage. The reality is that you are never going to convince enough people to stop tipping and, even if you did, you'd simply drive down the…
The reality is that workers are part of an offer and demand market which is already adjusted to be at equilibrium with the tips.
If you remove some of the tips (not everyone will take part as you said), employers WILL have to adjust for it in order to reach a new equilibrium, or start losing workers.
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#145Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.
There's no alternative at least where I live. I either use their service or don't get the items (since the reason I'm using them is because getting them myself is a problem).
A cash tip fixes this problem. I can't do anything about the business itself.
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, this is common in the restaurant industry. But a few differences: (1) Tips are expected in the restaurant industry (2) Waitstaff knows what they're signing up for (3) The restaurant does not adjust wages after tips have been received
> (3) The restaurant does not adjust wages after tips have been received In many cases they do. If you receive zero tips for a shift, they are obligated to pay out minimum wage. If you receive $200 in tips for a shift, they pay out a lower figure, usually around $2.
This must be a new thing or only apply to certain states/cities. I've never saw this happen back when I was doing low wage work.
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, personally, when I go to mcdonalds, I like to pay the guy at the register, the people cooking, the manager, and the unfortunate individual on trash duty all separately. Additionally, I refuse (on basic principle) to eat at any restaurant where I haven't mapped out their entire supply infrastructure. I made myself an app that keeps track of how much I spend at each of these restaurants in any given month and then…
“the customer can decide how much he wants to pay everybody in the supply chain” sounds a bit to too much like a possible pitch for a startup.
maybe we should tokenize it and put it on the block-chain :)
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#148I use instacart weekly. Not going to leave them any tip via the platform anymore...
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#149Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.
Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. Boycotts essentially never work. Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours? Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?
At least there are federal protections for employees. Companies that offset their operating costs onto an on-demand contract labor force are in a really exploitative gray area.
I disagree that collective action is impossible. Consumers become aware of problems, eg. high fructose corn syrup, and act accordingly, eg. buying less sugary junk. Cultural change is slow-moving but it starts with people giving a shit.
Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip
#150This is why the tipping system in the US is absurd. The whole "you must tip because they get paid peanuts" argument is a circular logic. How about making sure that the worker gets paid fairly by their employer and customers can then optionally tip for outstanding service?
That's not the logic behind the tipping system. It's, "tipping incentives employees to perform well because they'll make more money for doing a better job". It doesn't work that way either, but that's the rationale. Forcing people to tip to ensure people get paid enough money is a consequence of the system, not the reasoning why the system is implemented.
From what I understand of US history, tipping was introduced when hotels and restaurants lost money because of the prohibition, as a way to supplement wages.
So it sounds like it is absolutely used as a bad way to supplement wages.