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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#81

Post by ilikehurdles »

nitwit005 wrote: post #69
nck4222 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the logic behind the tipping system. It's, "tipping incentives employees to perform well because they'll make more money for doing a better job". It doesn't work that way either, but that's the rationale. Forcing people to tip to ensure people get paid enough money is a consequence of the system, not the reasoning why the system is implemented.

People do make the argument that you should tip generously because they're poorly paid.

The very people writing these workers’ paychecks are effectively making this argument.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#82

Post by Gibbon1 »

dhimes wrote: post #39
_t2kx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

Yep. They need to pay reimburse those workers with a penalty fee tacked on.

Same rules for should apply to wage theft as ordinary theft, more than $950 and it's a felony.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#83

Post by lenticular »

dhimes wrote: post #39
_t2kx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

Yep. They need to pay reimburse those workers with a penalty fee tacked on.

That's not necessarily true. Folks in the gig economy are often classed as "independent contractors" and thus are not subject to the Fair Labor Standards Act, including minimum wage laws. They also are not entitled to, nor almost ever receive, reimbursements for work expenses. When you are talking about using your own vehicle and paying for depreciation, mechanical work, and gas, this is considerable. It often winds up being an implicit loan against one's own vehicle.

I'd be surprised if calling something a "tip" makes it legally obligated to go to a contractor. I'm sure their lawyers are very aware of the law on this. As someone else said, there is almost certainly a binding arbitration clause. This removes the possibility of individual or class-action lawsuits.

edit: The abuse of the term "independent contractor" is just one of many examples of how labor law enforcement has become lax in the last several decades. How many people on this site aren't in management and work unpaid overtime?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#84

Post by Verdex »

gowld wrote: post #60

How about paying people who serve you instead of passing the "buck" to the someone else? Why start tipping for outstanding service, instead of setting the floor at $0 for 0 service? Answer: because people like to pay less for stuff and let the company eat the blame.

Yep, personally, when I go to mcdonalds, I like to pay the guy at the register, the people cooking, the manager, and the unfortunate individual on trash duty all separately.

Additionally, I refuse (on basic principle) to eat at any restaurant where I haven't mapped out their entire supply infrastructure. I made myself an app that keeps track of how much I spend at each of these restaurants in any given month and then I tip each entity a healthy percent (20% being the minimum because really if you can't afford 20% you can't afford to eat out). Currently, I'm tipping the truck drivers that deliver supplies, the factory workers who prepare the frozen food, the farmers, the accountants, the HR department, and the people who do road maintenance on the streets that all of the above use to get to work.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#86

Post by wetpaste »

_t2kx wrote: post #18
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

I had a service industry job in texas that payed me around 2.50 an hour (iirc) and as long as I made enough in tips to cover minimum wage they didn't have to pay actual minimum wage.

It's immoral as fuck to steal tips. I don't care if it's legal. If I'm a customer tipping the person a certain amount I want to make sure it's actually helping that person and not just lining the pockets of their employer, that's absurd.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#87

Post by ABeeSea »

B-Con wrote: post #32

> That's right: the customer's tip doesn't get added to the worker's check — it just gets deducted from what Instacart pays. In other words, up-front tips go to Instacart, not to the worker. My understanding is that the Fair Labor Standards Act does not allow for employers to whithold tips.[0] Gratuity/tip is a legally recognized concept. You can't just throw the word in your app and do what you want with the money i…

Yup, and Washington state specifically does not allow tip credits. Tips in WA are always on-top or hourly wage. (Which is why even a terrible bartender in Seattle can do pretty well.)

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#88

Post by weaksauce »

swozey wrote: post #40

I was a huge user of Instacart 2 years ago when my nearest grocery store turned into one of the busiest Whole Foods in my city that I didn't enjoy dealing with. The way they keep working to create opaqueness around their tipping to the point that last year Drivers were handing out pamphlets explaining how to remove the "Service Fee" (which nobody but Instacart gets) to tip the drivers was a huge red flag. Removing th…

100% of the tip goes to the driver yes. but, that statement is completely compatible with instacart changing how much they pay their driver for that delivery down to 80 cents. I hope this was a mistake on the part of instacart.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#89

Post by tedivm »

kojeovo wrote: post #61
tedivm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only do they steal tips, they also jack up the prices of the food itself. I make six figures and honest to god I have no idea how anyone affords to use DoorDash.

The restaurants, like the grocery stores in Instacart's case, determine the cost of food in their respective apps.

That's not true.

> DoorDash, which launched in 2014, services 15 metro areas in the U.S.; like many other delivery apps, it employs couriers to pick up food from restaurants and deliver it to customers. But beyond the usual delivery fees, taxes, and tips customers will shell out for, DoorDash also inflates the cost of each menu item — often unbeknownst to customers. For example, a sandwich that costs $10.99 directly from a restaurant might be listed as $14.95 on DoorDash, and the app gives customers no indication they're being upcharged. As Bloomberg notes, "Other delivery apps, such as Postmates and Square Inc.'s Caviar, typically list the same prices as those on the restaurants' menus."

https://www.eater.com/2016/3/18/11261548/doordash-delivery-s...

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#90

Post by kevin_b_er »

_t2kx wrote: post #18
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

It will not matter. Washington state law does not apply. The sovereign state of Washington laws are superseded and invalidated by mandatory binding arbitration. The rights set out in the State of Washington's constitution do not apply, for they are superceded and ignored by mandatory binding arbitration.

Any dispute will go to a monkey court instead.

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