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Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

techcrunch.com

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Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#141

Post by Spooky23 »

jessaustin wrote: post #78
avar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely a de facto dictatorship like this shouldn’t be so wealthy and successful[...] It's also worth noting that the entirety of Singapore just barely exceeds the area enclosed by Washington DC's beltway. Whatever their form of government, small city states are always going to be able to avoid many of the pitfalls of larger countries. There's effectively only one level of government to deal with, and the despot is…

This sounds like an argument for smaller nations?

All things come with problems. Lots of small principalities may have better local goverance, but they tend to squabble.

The other thing is that a place like Singapore is exceptional. It’s a strategic chokepoont established by a colonial power.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#142

Post by ABCLAW »

baybal2 wrote: post #108
threatofrain wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re assuming this person isn’t Chinese?

I do. I can not imagine an educated Chinese person these days going at that, moreover somebody from mainland China who is not a party member.

Not the poster you're replying to, but an examination of Legalism was presented in both law schools I attended. Additionally, I know it is also addressed in East Asian studies faculties (with additional historical context above the legal philosophy aspect of it, albeit with less emphasis on the functional qualities).

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#143

Post by anvandare »

baybal2 wrote: post #51
anvandare wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that one Dictator in a million Also called an enlightened despot; In the Eastern -Chinese Legalism tradition- a 明君 "míngjūn". There have been instances of them throughout history. But like you said, the problem is usually what happens once the ruler is gone. It's never a (long-term) good idea to have the success of a group dependant on a single person. A political system that produces mediocre-but-stable success (ov…

>In the Eastern -Chinese Legalism tradition- Oh my, can I ask you where did you pick that up? It feels to me that an average Western person nowadays has been taught more of that stuff than a well studied Chinese.

Picked it up long ago in a class on Eastern Philosophy. Given the vastness, variety, and history of Asia it barely covered 1% of it all, of course, so I only have a rough overview of the main traditions.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#144

Post by angelsl »

brianpgordon wrote: post #96
angelsl wrote: post #60

Why is everyone focusing on the fact that someone spoke via Skype? The fact is that 1. Jolovan Wham did organise a physical gathering of people 2. The gathering/assembly meets the definition as in the Public Order Act[1] 3. The venue, The Agora, meets the definition of a public place as in the Public Order Act [1]: https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/POA2009 They could have been watching a recorded video and it would have bee…

I'm not sure that a recorded video would have been the same. The source for the techcrunch article says: > The Singapore Police Force in an earlier statement, said that Wham had organised an indoor public assembly featuring a foreign speaker , which required a Police permit. Although given that political films are also banned, maybe a prerecorded video would have been illegal under a different law.

The problem is the intent of the gathering, not that it had a foreign speaker. (Not that I agree with the law, but that's what it says.)

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#145

Post by angelsl »

mempko wrote: post #134
angelsl wrote: post #60

Why is everyone focusing on the fact that someone spoke via Skype? The fact is that 1. Jolovan Wham did organise a physical gathering of people 2. The gathering/assembly meets the definition as in the Public Order Act[1] 3. The venue, The Agora, meets the definition of a public place as in the Public Order Act [1]: https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/POA2009 They could have been watching a recorded video and it would have bee…

And? Some laws are stupid and must be broken.

If you don't like a law, change it, don't break it and get yourself in trouble.

This is basically the difference between East Asian cultures and Western/American culture. We value a balance of order and individual rights, you guys value individual rights over all.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#146

Post by tim333 »

nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

>Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party

hence "de facto dictatorship"

It could alternatively be that the people are reasonably happy with their levels of peace and prosperity and see no need to change the government.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#147

Post by chrchang523 »

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #98
nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

I don't think the issue is that 'good' dictators are so rare (one in a million), but that they are rare enough that two back to back is extremely rare and three back to back is beyond hope, even if each dictator tries their best to train up their replacement. As such the real test of these systems is how they fair after the original dictator is gone. Singapore is currently in the middle of their test and the grade wo…

Even consecutive good dictators aren't that rare--Rome had the "Five Good Emperors" after all--but a single bad one can be enough to wreck the polity. Rome did recover from Nero... but it never really did from Commodus.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#148

Post by hkt »

Nasrudith wrote: post #71
hkt wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I have snarked before the best way to get rid of dictatorship brigades with a minimum of effort is to start posting references to their Tiananmen Squares - very awkward facts they don't want disseminated and may have auto-blocked.

You may be a literal genius. Great idea.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#149

Post by tdeck »

angelsl wrote: post #145
mempko wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? Some laws are stupid and must be broken.

If you don't like a law, change it, don't break it and get yourself in trouble. This is basically the difference between East Asian cultures and Western/American culture. We value a balance of order and individual rights, you guys value individual rights over all.

How does that work when the law forbids you from assembling to effect political change?

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#150

Post by mikeyouse »

bobcostas55 wrote: post #77
baybal2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Singapore for 2.5 years. I mostly remembered him for his psychomumbling of later part of his life. Calling him "doing all things right" is a big stretch. The biggest error of him was to cling to power long after his mind went going. Singapore's economic success was pretty much a meme too. The median income is only ~20000 USD a year, less than half of the economic product per capita. There were three epochs…

>The median income is only ~20000 USD a year, less than half of the economic product per capita. This[0] publication puts median household income at $108k SGD or 79.5k USD (and that would actually be higher if adjusted for PPP). The median household income for the US is 59k USD. [0] https://www.singstat.gov.sg/-/media/files/publications/house...

As pointed out elsewhere -- That's the median resident income. There's a huge class of workers that are never given residency that are purposefully ignored by the official stats. Roughly 1/3 of the inhabitants of SG are non-residents who typically work low wage jobs (nearly all domestic help in this category) and they have very limited rights.
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