Brazil sets new record for homicides • Hacker News Board

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#141

Post by malandrew » Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #58

anoncoward111 wrote: post #3

I recently moved to a "bad neighborhood" and was very surprised to learn that there was only one murder here last year, and it was between friends who had stolen something from each other. There were only around 13,000 murders last year in the US, a number that used to be more like 26,000 during the crack epidemic 30 years ago. US population has increased by 10s of millions since then, but murders continue to drop. A…

>S population has increased by 10s of millions since then, but murders continue to drop. Yet mass shootings are becoming dramatically more common. What I find curious is that while the Brazilian murder rate is about 6 or 7 times that in the US, the rate of firearm related deaths is 'only' double. Is firearm suicide dramatically more common in the US, or are a lot of the murders perpetrated in Brazil not firearm relat…

The US owns 40% of guns in the world. 4% of the world's population. Yet only 3.7% of homicides.

Lots of the murders in Brazil are firearms related and it has very strong gun-control laws. The average citizen is not allowed to own a gun.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#142

Post by cambalache » Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 11:34 PM UTC

mavdi wrote: post #10

dbelchamber wrote: post #2

Eesh. If all of this is accurate, it is problematic indeed. I wonder how many of these homicides would cease to occur if drugs were made legal in Brazil (I wonder about this worldwide). I've never understood why it's difficult for people to understand the awful incentive structures that making drugs illegal puts into motion.

Brazil, like most of South (and now perhaps north too?) America suffers from macho populism. A lot of character politicians with tough messages, empty promises and sadly the population just falls for it every time. These stats, along with others, is the result of years of populism, corruption and neglect.

The world is not an Ivy League campus. It is kinda insulting you think this is the cause of crime.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#143

Post by mnm1 » Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 11:48 PM UTC

rvr_ wrote: post #18

Brazilian here. Our criminality numbers are _probably_ higher than the official numbers. The country is huge and diverse, but even the most pacific states and cities are in a bad shape if compared to almost any other country. More than 70% of the deaths are related to gang conflicts. Drugs are not the only problem. We also have a lot of cargo/truck stealing, street-level robbery, an enormous black market of stolen mo…

Have you guys tried legalizing drugs yet? I don't mean decriminalizing small quantities of weed or even legalizing weed like Uruguay. I mean full out legalization with legal stores everywhere and legal pipelines. To me that's the giant elephant in the room, the clearly obvious solution. Not to mention all the things that tax money could go to. Now drug manufacturers, transporters, and dealers don't have to resort to violence and you can use the money to improve everyone's lives. Sure, the US might be pissy for a bit, but you can have some balls and stand up to our stupid, crumbling empire, or you can just keep going on the way things have been for decades: more violence, more incarcerations, more of the same shit that doesn't work.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#144

Post by malandrew » Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #134

briandear wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let's not forget that America's crazy gun laws are pushed by gun lobbies because they help increase sales by creating an easy way to funnel guns into South and Central America. Could we please stick to facts? US gun laws have essentially no impact on this issue. Based on murder rates, it would seem like Brazil is the place with "crazy" gun laws. Shifting responsibility for Brazil's violence to US gun manufacturers…

"Homicide rates don't directly correlate to gun availability. Mexico had 29,168 homicides in 2017 with a population of 200 million fewer people than in the US. And Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws anywhere." Strict gun laws don't necessarily equal less gun availability. You have to look at how effectively those gun laws are enforced, how much corruption there is in the country, gun law loopholes, the viabili…

Gun control laws in these countries are very effective. They're effective at making sure law-abiding citizens remain unarmed and can't defend themselves.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#145

Post by mnm1 » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 12:02 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #140

mrisoli wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Belo Horizonte and the constant anxiety is real, of course it's not a problem every moment but shows up in every situation. Waiting for the bus every day of the week for 15-30min, you're very exposed, and should be careful with your phone out, and some people learn your commute time, follow you, it's rare, but if you're not paying attention, it can happen. I personally used to(don't live there anymore) doubl…

Brazil is the example I use to explain to people why I'm in favor of the 2nd amendment and Stand Your Ground laws. When owning a gun is criminal, only criminals will have guns and everyone else will be unable to defend themselves. If ordinary citizens had guns, at least in their own home, the criminals would think twice about breaking and entering because they won't know which homes are armed.

This also somewhat works as a deterrent when those criminals are dressed in blue and carry badges if it's widespread in society, although clearly it only prevents the worst of the worst abuses as seen in the US.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#146

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 12:03 AM UTC

duncanawoods wrote: post #20

lbrito wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, about 80% are drug related.

What is the conflict that's causing such a high rate? I associate Col/Mex deaths with cartels warring over trafficking routes but what is happening in Brazil? Is it just street trade?

Brazil has 3 national-level drug cartels that are in their own mini-war. Besides that, some cities (like Rio and São Paulo) have many local cartels that constantly fight over territory.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#147

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 12:08 AM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #125

ransom1538 wrote: post #52

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Brazil "Thus, disarmament is effectively happening in Brazil,[12] as are massive gun confiscations,[13] notwithstanding its refusal by Brazilian people (at the referendum of 2005). Some argue that this will increase gun homicides. Other research shows that there is a decrease in firearm deaths correlating with disarmament.[14][15] However, 2012 marked the highest rate of gun…

They aren't. Acquiring a firearm legally is a ridiculously bureaucratic process where you must submit to psychological evaluations by the military and "justify" your "need" to own a gun. If you manage to get approved by that long process, your reward is an extremely limited selection of revolvers chambered in weak calibers that you can't carry with you outside your home or place of work. The weapon must be registered…

If the police are refusing to do their job, that sounds like a bigger problem. Professionals trained in firearm usage and gang suppression would be far more effective than a disparate group of individuals owning a non-revolving pistol and shotgun. England doesn’t have this problem despite having very restrictive laws.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#148

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 12:11 AM UTC

dbelchamber wrote: post #2

Eesh. If all of this is accurate, it is problematic indeed. I wonder how many of these homicides would cease to occur if drugs were made legal in Brazil (I wonder about this worldwide). I've never understood why it's difficult for people to understand the awful incentive structures that making drugs illegal puts into motion.

At this point I'm almost convinced that Brazil keeps the drugs illegal due to the pressure from dealers alone.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#149

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 12:13 AM UTC

GFischer wrote: post #93

dbelchamber wrote: post #2

Eesh. If all of this is accurate, it is problematic indeed. I wonder how many of these homicides would cease to occur if drugs were made legal in Brazil (I wonder about this worldwide). I've never understood why it's difficult for people to understand the awful incentive structures that making drugs illegal puts into motion.

Here in Uruguay, marijuana is legal, and homicides are at an all-time high (higher than Argentina and very near to the rates in Brazil, we used to be at less than a quarter). I´m not sure if decriminalizing all drugs would change the equation much (there´s still smuggling, prostitution and other vices to lord over).

Uruguay almost surely feels a strong influence from the Brazilian policies.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#150

Post by rqs » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 12:14 AM UTC

rvr_ wrote: post #18

Brazilian here. Our criminality numbers are _probably_ higher than the official numbers. The country is huge and diverse, but even the most pacific states and cities are in a bad shape if compared to almost any other country. More than 70% of the deaths are related to gang conflicts. Drugs are not the only problem. We also have a lot of cargo/truck stealing, street-level robbery, an enormous black market of stolen mo…

Resolving violence problem is hard. If the government is not onboard with you, technology is almost useless.

Assuming your government (the justice department at least) still functioning, electronic banking transaction MAY actually reduce random street robberies. Because those kind of transaction will almost certainly leaves some kind of trace behind, which gives law enforcement a chance to discover illegal activities.