Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#141

Post by dood » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:36 PM UTC

JansjoFromIkea wrote: post #27

Balero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has a higher cost of living, with London pretty much equal to NY or SF and other high cost cities. The other equivalents are cheaper in the US.

I've lived in both SF (and Berkeley) and London. Accommodation in London zone 1 is a good bit lower than SF without the same level of competition. Accommodation further out is (overall) significantly cheaper than the BART accessible parts of Oakland and Berkeley with a drastically better public transportation setup. Pretty cool and inexpensive but (by London standards) not that accessible areas like Peckham are about…

I was curious about this since it seems unlikely SF can be so much more expensive than London. When I looked into it a couple of months ago, I found zone 1 London rents are a fair bit higher than equivalent apartments in SF if you compare by square-footage and quality. I speculate that the idea SF is much pricier than London is caused by significantly lower standards/expectations for London.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#142

Post by foldr » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #140

foldr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's strategic nuclear capability dwarfs that of any country in the EU. The Russian armed forces aren't what they used to be, but without the backing of the US, Russia's conventional military threat to the EU is also serious.

They have a lot of nukes because nukes are cheap and Russia's economy is pretty small - a good bit less than Italy and less than half of the UK. They probably do pose a realistic threat to the Baltic states - but that's because they are very small and isolated.

They're not that cheap. Russia spends about 230 billion USD annually, and spends about 10 billion on nuclear weapons. That's more than any country other than the USA.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#143

Post by zimablue » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:41 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #131

zimablue wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's nuclear capacity? How is that relevant? The UK alone has 215 nukes (just checked wiki), so yeah maybe Russia could kill all of us and we'd only kill 90% of them but past a certain threshold additional nuclear weapons are irrelevant. My last post as HN is supposed to be better than this kind of nationalistic -swinging but I think the idea that Europe is reliant on US for protection is pretty absurd. Multiple…

That's supposing that the weapons work as advertised. The UK is entirely reliant on Trident for its nuclear deterrent, and it is reliant on support from the USA to maintain Trident. If Trident turns out not to work very well (which is entirely possible), or if relations with the USA sour, or if ballistic missile submarines turn out to be easier to detect and/or more vulnerable than expected, then the UK could very we…

There are also Germany, Italy, other states which have nukes through NATO. If the US is serious about withdrawing from NATO then the nuclear capability of these states would end up being completely independent from the US, and EU has the tech and money to scale their nuclear capacity up to any necessary level.

You're right they're not Germany's, my bad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

They're the US' nukes but this is all predicated on NATO which was previously assumed. If US withdraws from NATO then they won't get to keep nukes in Germany, so they either lease them or withdraw them.

I think the two important points are that 1. Europe has the capacity to build and sustain a massive nuclear arsenal 2. They already have enough to usher in the apocalypse for anyone who invaded them including Russia. 500 vs 3000 is kind of irrelevant when you could already kill millions upon millions. 3. Some of the seeming reliance of Europe on America for nukes is by choice and a consequence of the previously rock-solid alliance. In the event of the breakup of that alliance the independent capacity of Europe to summon the apocalypse would be a lot more obvious

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#144

Post by lawlorino » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:41 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #125

bodas wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even on a selfish level, the extra 2-3 weeks of PTO in UK is easily more important than the extra compensation in the US. What's the point of having more money if you are stuck in an office for more of the year and can only spend it on material goods? As you say, for women the difference in maternity leave is laughable.

Eventually at Google US you get 5 weeks PTO, which is the same as in Google London. Plus Google has four more holidays in the US than in the UK.

> Eventually at Google US you get 5 weeks PTO, which is the same as in Google London. Ah but you're cherry picking an example from one company, I am also not sure how long or what role you'd need to accrue that much PTO. In Europe most (all?) countries have a legal minimum of 3-4 weeks PTO in addition to public holidays, regardless of your job or time working.

> Plus Google has four more holidays in the US than in the UK. I'm not sure what the definition of federal holidays is vs. public holidays in Europe, but a quick Google suggests US has 10 while the UK has 8 public holidays.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#145

Post by foldr » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

zimablue wrote: post #143

foldr wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's supposing that the weapons work as advertised. The UK is entirely reliant on Trident for its nuclear deterrent, and it is reliant on support from the USA to maintain Trident. If Trident turns out not to work very well (which is entirely possible), or if relations with the USA sour, or if ballistic missile submarines turn out to be easier to detect and/or more vulnerable than expected, then the UK could very we…

There are also Germany, Italy, other states which have nukes through NATO. If the US is serious about withdrawing from NATO then the nuclear capability of these states would end up being completely independent from the US, and EU has the tech and money to scale their nuclear capacity up to any necessary level. You're right they're not Germany's, my bad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing They're the US' nu…

You're misinformed. Neither Germany nor Italy has nuclear weapons.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#146

Post by Silhouette » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

JoeSmithson wrote: post #99

angarg12 wrote: post #11

> As the tech workers land the big salaries, home prices are skyrocketing, and the locals are being squeezed out. Joke is on them, I'm a new tech immigrant to Cambridge and I still can't buy a house here.

That's more an effect of the fast train to KGX

There are trains actually running to King's Cross now? ducks

But seriously, if you want to know what the housing market in Cambridge is driven by, look at the new things they're building. The "affordable" housing is far beyond anyone doing a "normal" job who just wants to live locally, say a school teacher or a nurse at one of the hospitals. Even those of us lucky enough to work in the relatively well-paid tech sector mostly couldn't afford one of the new luxury flats or town houses that keep springing up near the railway station, some of which have seven-figure asking prices.

For those reading this in the US who might be used to SV wages in tech, earning enough over here to get a seven figure place almost certainly means that either you had a very successful exit already or you have an unusually well-paid gig probably down in London. No-one on anything close to normal salary or freelance rates in tech sectors can get that kind of mortgage, so otherwise if you didn't already own a place that you can trade up from, you're totally locked out of that high-end market. And yet people keep building whole estates of properties like that, and then trickling them onto the market over the next year or two to keep the prices high.

I find it quite depressing that having been entrepreneurial and even modestly successful by any normal standard, we would probably still have made more money if we'd just invested in buy-to-let property in Cambridge instead of starting our first business and then reinvested in growing the property portfolio since. The UK housing market (and our incentives for taking a risk and starting out on your own in business) are messed up.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#147

Post by Anderkent » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #123

a_imho wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, consider V4, Romania, Croatia etc.

My experience has been with Polish, Ukranian and Hungarian programmes who are technically excellent, but very flaky. They just disappear for weeks and then pop up again as if nothing happened. I don't know if it's a cultural thing like Indian programmers who always say yes even when they mean no, or I've just met unreliable ones.

In what context? Consulting or employment?

It would be very weird for someone employed full time in Poland to disappear for weeks.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#148

Post by drej » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:44 PM UTC

I used to work in Cambridge, a tech job of sorts. It was swell, the quality of life is great, London really close as well.

There were only two downsides. One, pretty bad public transport and driving was often not an option. Two, very few flats, so you’d mostly share with others in houses.

Last but not least, there is a great divide between the students, the so-called professionals (meaning tech, medical research, aeronautics etc.) and town people. The frictions were commonplace.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#149

Post by justsomedude43 » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

6ak74rfy wrote: post #62

justsomedude43 wrote: post #53

I wouldn't move to US for $140k from my £40k salary in the UK unless they point a gun at my face and force me to do it. So to each their own I guess.

I am thinking about moving from US to London. So, I am curious to know why you prefer UK to US despite the salary gap. Also, do you know how does their healthcare compare?

"I am thinking about moving from US to London. So, I am curious to know why you prefer UK to US despite the salary gap."

Because it's not all about the money. People make mistake by comparing salaries on their own which is not correct, you need to compare what's left of your salary after you've afforded the same level of lifestyle.

You might look at $140k as a lot of money and £40k as very little money but you need to put that into perspective. My salary comes with tax deducted and you have to pay someone to do your taxes for you. That's the first difference and it's quite vocal.

I don't mind and honestly prefer to have 40-50% tax taken away from my salary to enjoy certain social benefits which you would need to pay extra for and there are some things that just aren't in the US, like pension. You don't have pension, you have 401k which is a voluntary savings account basically. Besides the state pension that I will get once I retire (and will continue to receive as long as I'm alive), I also get 5% of my gross salary taken away every month and my employer tops it off with another 5%. If nothing else, at least I'm set when I retire and I don't have to worry if I'll have enough money until the day I die after retirement.

Some countries in Europe, much like the one I come from, have half smaller salaries than the UK and I would still take £20k salary over $140k in US because you can't put a price on a 5min commute to work and letting your children play outside without supervision, going for a walk at 11pm without having to worry that something might happen to you, not having ghettos or "bad areas" in your city, being able to go to a hospital and have a surgery without paying anything, sending your kids to university without paying anything... like I said, to each their own. If you only look at money itself and nothing else then yes, $140k in US is much better.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#150

Post by the_watcher » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

bodas wrote: post #64

robert_foss wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal counter is that I just couldn't morally accept contributing taxes to a nation which: - Exploits the poor and non-citizens - Overthrows governments and bullies smaller countries - Has only the most rudimentary social security system - Does not really have a concept of healthy work/life balance. With little time off and none at all for people with newborns. - Takes near-zero environmental responsibility - L…

Even on a selfish level, the extra 2-3 weeks of PTO in UK is easily more important than the extra compensation in the US. What's the point of having more money if you are stuck in an office for more of the year and can only spend it on material goods? As you say, for women the difference in maternity leave is laughable.

At the big tech companies the parent references, the PTO and parental leave are pretty competitive.