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Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

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Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#91
post #44
post #32

Why would you chase people from Universities who have high salary expectations when you have the internet? It is beyond me. Developers storm remote positions, yet the industry is super slow with adoption.

Because in-person collaboration is more effective.

Having worked partially remote for about 12 years now, it is more because management believes butts in chairs is a sign of productivity.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#92
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In complete terms it's more like 3x that $78k figure. The salary would be bad enough. The big US tech companies are nearly all publicly traded. So that $142,000 is really $250,000 or more in total compensation. The UK, and Europe more broadly, not only can't compete with the salaries, they can't compete with the ability to dish vast stock compensation thanks to the immense market caps that Google et al. have. If you'…

> The top 1/4 in the US have easy, fast access to some of the most elite medical care on the planet. And if you're making $142k in salary in the US, your healthcare is entirely paid for. There is nothing surprising in the fact that the top 25% earners have access to healthcare. The point of public healthcare is to make sure that the remaining 75% will not get indebted to barely survive. What would worry an European w…

Misunderstood the question

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#93

I wouldn't move to US for $140k from my £40k salary in the UK unless they point a gun at my face and force me to do it. So to each their own I guess.

I am thinking about moving from US to London. So, I am curious to know why you prefer UK to US despite the salary gap. Also, do you know how does their healthcare compare?

For one, our healthcare is free. Though many companies still provide private healthcare as a benefit. Personally I agree with OP, I wouldn't want to live in the US either. Mainly because capitalism has been taken to an ugly extreme and you might get paid more but you also work more etc. Not to mention the tax and tips culture. Of course there are problems here too; it rains a lot more, and every conversation that goes on long enough always ends up as some sort of brexit complaint ...

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#94
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in-person collaboration is more effective.

Haha, erm... source?

I realize these aren't controlled experiments, but consider two sources:

1) Alistair Cockburn has a communication chart [0] suggesting that face-to-face at a whiteboard is the most effective form of communication. He's been showing the chart for at least a decade, to rooms full of engineers from all the big players and lots of little players. If he were wrong, he'd eventually run out of consulting clients, but that hasn't happened. I realize this is a weak argument.

2) YCombinator co-locates its funded teams. I'd wager they're familiar with the arguments for and against remote work, that they're technology savvy, that they're data-driven, and they're incentivized to get the most for their money. I realize that this second argument is the same as my first, but I think these arguments should make you think about why they put a premium on in-person collaboration.

[0] http://www.agilemodeling.com/essays/communication.htm

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but surely you appreciate that direct communication in person is.. well, at the very least 'efficient'? No, I don't. I believe written communication is far more efficient. Cavemen talk. Writing is the greatest technology we've ever invented. Forget all your latest devops crazes, you can't do anything useful without writing.

Look, I work alone and find some situations best described by writing down long and comprehensive emails - but if you're going to accuse face-to-face contact as being 'caveman talk' I'm sorry but I'm going to wonder if your empathic or social intelligence is somehow dialled down. My life experience tells me that there are vast tracts of productivity that are served very well by direct collaboration with other humans.

> accuse face-to-face contact as being 'caveman talk'

I said it's caveman technology, which is surely indisputable. In my experience it's thoroughly inefficient for discussing technical matters. That's probably why not much technology was developed before writing.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#96

> According to the recruitment website Hired, the average tech salary in London is $78,000 a year, versus $142,000 in Silicon Valley. And this is one of the reasons for the brain drain that the mention before. Silicon Valley firms pay significantly more than the competition, and they are still paying almost half of what they do in the US. It isn't only about money, but it would be naive to deny it's impact on people'…

In complete terms it's more like 3x that $78k figure. The salary would be bad enough. The big US tech companies are nearly all publicly traded. So that $142,000 is really $250,000 or more in total compensation. The UK, and Europe more broadly, not only can't compete with the salaries, they can't compete with the ability to dish vast stock compensation thanks to the immense market caps that Google et al. have. If you'…

Also we get 2-3x more holiday, and sick days don't come from your holiday allowance. And the hours are shorter. I work 40 hours a week for very good pay (for the UK). Previous job was 37.5 hours.

I bet Google's hours are much longer.

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#97
post #92
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The top 1/4 in the US have easy, fast access to some of the most elite medical care on the planet. And if you're making $142k in salary in the US, your healthcare is entirely paid for. There is nothing surprising in the fact that the top 25% earners have access to healthcare. The point of public healthcare is to make sure that the remaining 75% will not get indebted to barely survive. What would worry an European w…

Misunderstood the question

Pretty sure all the parent's questions were healthcare related:

[What happens to my healthcare] if I want to start a business?

[What happens to my healthcare] if I want to go back to college?

...

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I work alone and find some situations best described by writing down long and comprehensive emails - but if you're going to accuse face-to-face contact as being 'caveman talk' I'm sorry but I'm going to wonder if your empathic or social intelligence is somehow dialled down. My life experience tells me that there are vast tracts of productivity that are served very well by direct collaboration with other humans.

> accuse face-to-face contact as being 'caveman talk' I said it's caveman technology, which is surely indisputable. In my experience it's thoroughly inefficient for discussing technical matters. That's probably why not much technology was developed before writing.

Is the insinuation not the same? It comes across as somewhat derisory, whether intended or not.

What amuses me about this exchange here is how even in 'collaborating' through writing, at least four individuals aren't able to meaningfully describe what they really intend. The internet, writ black and white, polarises and makes nuance absolute and all hope of sense is lost! :)

For what it's worth, I do appreciate where you're coming from - there's no forelorn dread I feel more than the suggestion of a completely superfluous face to face meeting... .

- ed

Also, I have to repeatedly remind friends and family, as well as business contacts, that the best and most assured way to get in contact with me is to send me an email. It has been for nearly 20 years now. Always!

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#99

> As the tech workers land the big salaries, home prices are skyrocketing, and the locals are being squeezed out. Joke is on them, I'm a new tech immigrant to Cambridge and I still can't buy a house here.

That's more an effect of the fast train to KGX

Re: Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK

#100

> As the tech workers land the big salaries, home prices are skyrocketing, and the locals are being squeezed out. Joke is on them, I'm a new tech immigrant to Cambridge and I still can't buy a house here.

Agreed - I think the key to owning a house in Cambridge is to already own a house in Cambridge. That and work in the City or buy-to-let.

On the other hand, buying in conjunction with the local housing associations is more feasible, so it's not all doom and gloom.

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