Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

bunniestudios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 357 posts

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#141

Post by adventured »

jeromegv wrote: post #116
defertoreptar wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. You need look no further than the USA's gaping trade deficits.

There is no trade deficit with Canada.

There was a cumulative $370 billion trade deficit going back to 2007, and a nearly $800 billion trade deficit back to year 2000. There has been a trade deficit with Canada every year the past 30+ years, including so far in 2018. [1]

How would Canada like to run a $800 billion trade deficit with the US over the next 17 years? You know, just to make things fair over time. Didn't think so.

On the upside, the trade deficit has narrowed from a common $30 billion five years ago, to more like $10 to $15 billion. That's a pretty happy result if you're the US, given it's a consumption engine (lower domestic savings at the median, higher consumption rate, which pushes up demand for imports in most cases).

[1] https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#142

Post by gruez »

jfk13 wrote: post #102
gruez wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really? never got hit with duties from imports that were under-declare, even in cases where the item in question was obviously worth more than $20 (eg. phones).

I take it that knowingly participating in fraud doesn't bother you at all?

The seller does it for everyone. I didn’t request it to be underdeclared.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#143

Post by dalbasal »

digitalzombie wrote: post #22
dalbasal wrote: post #19

Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…

I disagree. Wavepool, Maytag, etc.. Americans washer and dryer cloth machines pushed for Tariff from the Obama administration to fight against Samsung and other. The tariff target machine coming out from specific countries so Samsung and other moved to other South Eastern companies such as Vietnam. So the American companies pushed for tariff for all incoming washing machine that aren't American. Trump administration…

I don't think we disagree, necessarily.

I don't have strong opinions about trade barriers, but I generally fall on the "no barriers" side.

That said, implementation matters. Badly implemented barrier reduction policies will be worse than well implemented barrier raising policies. Policies are like everything else, in this respect. We just get more list in the high falutin debate more often, when it comes to politics.

I'm arguing that if trade barriers are going up, tariffs are the better implementation.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#144

Post by sumeonenew »

digitalzombie wrote: post #25

I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…

Counterpoints to the article:

> Some of the most compelling jobs to bring back to the US are the so-called “last screw” system integration operations.

Somewhat. The system integration operations are tedious and human-labor intensive. Those operations could still move to other cheaper labored countries such as Vietnam, India, etc. And if the operations can be automated, these operations will be reshored. The point of the tariffs exercise is to encourage manufacturing to move out of China and into other countries or reshored, to punish China for stealing IP and unfair business practices.

> I’ve examined the tariff lists (List 1 and List 2), and it taxes the import of basic components, tools and sub-assemblies, while giving fully assembled goods a free pass.

Trump just announced he is starting an additional $200 billion tariff on Chinese goods. That will definitely cover some fully assembled goods since the trade deficit is only around $330 billion, and there is already tariffs on $50 billion https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-escala...

> While stiff tariffs on the import of microchips drove investment in local chip companies, trade barriers meant the local companies didn’t have to be as competitive.

True in some ways. However, there will always be competition pressures and anti-monopoly pressures. It really depends on the shape of the market. And in technology, there are always the threat of obsolete/disruptive innovations to keep companies on their toes.

> New Tariffs Hurt Educators and Makers

If educators and makers really wanted cheap standalone components to play with, and there is a market, there will be a market sooner or later born in US for them. the $250 billion tariffs (and any subsequent ones) will make sure of that. If manufacturing can be reshored to China in 15 years, it can be reshored back to US in less time than that, with US economy booming 4% this quarter, massive capital inflow, and robotics technology growing.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#147

Post by adventured »

tanilama wrote: post #62
xienze wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe get back to the original question and the reason Trump is interested in starting a trade war? Why is it OK for other countries to levy tariffs against us but not the other way around?

US doesn't have the lowest overall tariff in the world, it is Japan who does among major countries. Talking about fairness, it is fair for US to print their own currency and buy goods around the world, while other countries can't do the same? The reserve status of dollar doesn't come by itself, there is a price to pay, you can't have the cake and eat it.

Japan has slightly lower average trade weighted tariffs than the US.

Japan has nearly 200% higher agriculture tariffs than the US.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#148

Post by fizgig »

cdumler wrote: post #118
frockington wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe nobody should have tariffs. Understanding that is never going to happen, it should at least be a starting ppoint

I'm glad that you believe it, but it's not a reasonable position. The primary reason for some U.S. tariffs is the legitimate reason of national security. We provide tariffs on certain foods, mineral resources, and military products because we want to guarantee that we do not loose production ability. Should we suddenly find ourselves in a world war, we would not be creating these production lines from scratch. Theref…

Wouldn't strategic reserves be a solution to this? Hoard enough to cover ramp-up time for domestic production.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#149

Post by searine »

mchannon wrote: post #4

If the cost of food doubles, your cost of a meal out doesn't double, but merely increases by a lesser amount. This is a 25% bump, a portion of which will be borne by the manufacturer, seller, shipper, and money handler. I don't see how it's even close to possible for customs to intercept 50% of the mail coming in from China to ensure they've paid the tariffs. So, things will range from unenforceable and unenforced, t…

>If the cost of food doubles, your cost of a meal out doesn't double, but merely increases by a lesser amount.

Easy to say on a full stomach.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#150

Post by alkonaut »

ska wrote: post #103
frockington wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. For example US farm subsidies are significant and supply management is common in many areas, but the rhetoric around Canadian dairy supply management recently has been amplified far beyond even it's wildest possible impact. And this with a country wi…

I think farm/dairy is the example where almost all countries have weird tariffs. Which is of course why they are such popular examples. But they are exceptions.
Post reply on HN