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Swedes turn against cashlessness

theguardian.com

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Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#141

Post by fvdessen »

mapgrep wrote: post #122
nv-vn wrote: post #76

Wow. No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is? They're not just talking about eliminating cash, they want to nationalize all private banking. They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies, that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can, and that the state is somehow going to be able to handle t…

>The state is anti-innovation Let's look at "innovation" in consumer banking: -Debit and credit cards physically show numbers that give full access to the accounts 40 years after modern public key cryptography was invented -A very modest improvement to this system, known as PIN and chip, came to the U.S. recently after years in Europe and Asia; the Wall Street Journal has called this very basic change a "nightmare" m…

> A very modest improvement to this system, known as PIN and chip, came to the U.S. recently after years in Europe and Asia.

Chip and PIN is a private initiative. I don't know why it took off in Europe/Asia and not in the USA, but it has little to do with the state.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#142

Post by rgbrenner »

ciocan42 wrote: post #20

From what I've seen here in London (UK), mostly tourists use cash. Everybody else uses contactless payments. You can pay with contactless cards or apple/android pay on the public transport or on your corner grocery store. And with the new fin-tech banks like Monzo, Starling or Revolut the banking apps are light years ahead of traditional banks.

This is one of those things people who pay cashless think (including me, although Im not in the UK) because no one pays attention to how other people pay for things.

As of July 2017, 42.3% of transactions used cash in the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/12/cash-contactle...

The US has a similarly high percentage also.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#143

Post by AnthonyMouse »

tigershark wrote: post #136
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This still takes more time than touching a wallet to a sensor How? The machines will literally take an entire stack of bills at once, read them and make change in the same time it takes to verify an electronic transaction. You would need a stopwatch with sub-second precision to even tell the difference. Which one is faster is down more to the specific model of payment processing machine than the payment method. And…

It’s at least a 30 seconds difference. You need to read the amount, extract your wallet, check if you have the exact amount of money to avoid filling your wallet with useless coins, 90% of the time you realise that you don’t have it and you start fumbling between your notes to find the correct amount that can give you a reasonable change. At that point you can start to have fun fighting with the machine that won’t ac…

You don't need to do any of that. It's a machine that makes exact change. Is your purchase $52.27 but in your wallet you have 39 cents in coins and $64 in bills? Counting is for computers. Just dump the contents of your wallet into the machine and let it figure it out.

And you can't count processing failures on one side but not the other. The machine can't read your card. The network is down. Some jerk at the bank fat fingered something and now you have to spend six hours on the phone sorting it out.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#144

Post by matthiasl »

nv-vn wrote: post #76

Wow. No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is? They're not just talking about eliminating cash, they want to nationalize all private banking. They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies, that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can, and that the state is somehow going to be able to handle t…

> they want to nationalize all private banking

That would be crazy. But I can't see where the article says that, nor can I see it said in the opinion piece by the chairman of the Swedish reserve bank which the article links.

The chairman of the Swedish reserve bank makes two suggestions:

1. Modify the RIX system of settlements in the reserve bank. One suggested modification is to extend its operating hours, currently it closes at 17:00 each day. I don't think anyone would consider that a radical proposal.

2. Force banks to handle cash, i.e. if you want to be a bank, then you have to let people withdraw and deposit cash at your branches.

This second point sounds almost bizarre, a bit like demanding that you can't be a restaurant if you don't serve food. But the current situation is that the major banks in Sweden have rapidly reduced the number of branches that handle cash. Swedbank, one of the big four, has roughly 100 branches in Stockholm, the capital, but only two of them handle cash.

You can deposit small amounts of cash in ATMs, about $1000. Anything beyond that and you have to make a trip to one of the two branches that still handles cash.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#145

Post by Redklao »

bobthechef wrote: post #132
fallingfrog wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might have something to do with them being used to having a government that isn't utterly dysfunctional from top to bottom. Such a thing is possible, believe it or not. Their health systems are certainly less complicated and bureaucratic than US systems, despite being public.

Yes, and Sweden's population is 3% of the US's, and the country is very homogenous ethnically. There are other factors I'm sure, but these factors are very important. In any event, I detect the unmistakable tendency of many in the American Left to view the Nordic countries as something approaching utopia[0]. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/stop-the-scandimania...

Over 16% of the Swedish population is foreign-born, which is higher than in the USA. Only about half of that is from other European nations, and that is mostly from Eastern Europe. Iraq is the second most common country of origin after Finland.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#146

Post by Redklao »

rahikainen wrote: post #125
xtrapolate wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is?" Lucky you're here! > "The state is anti-innovation" Not in Sweden, it isn't. Ad hominem all the way. > "They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies" There are examples in recent history that support this model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Israel_bank_stock_crisis

"Not in Sweden, it isn't. Ad hominem all the way." Maybe innovative in importing rapists and terrorists. Yeah job well done.

You mean your fellow Finns that are the largest group of immigrants and that have been overrepresented in crime statistics?

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#147

Post by tomp »

QasimK wrote: post #139
brownbat wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I requested a contactless card in the US, it took some pleading, but it was the greatest decision. About half the places I shop support Apple and Google pay, and those systems always seem to take the card, but it's far faster than my phone or watch. Way faster than chip, of course. No idea why it didn't take off here, contactless cards have been the best experience for me by a mile. Maybe people have had better luck…

Contactless cards aren’t really any faster than Apple Pay secured by your fingerprint, and in fact are the same speed if you prepare your iPhone - supposing your phone is at least as accessible as your contactless card. I’ve never used the Apple Watch for this.

The expected time it takes to pay with a phone is increased by taking into account all the times my fingerprint isn't read successfully on the first (or any) attempt.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#148

Post by kadenshep »

nv-vn wrote: post #76

Wow. No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is? They're not just talking about eliminating cash, they want to nationalize all private banking. They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies, that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can, and that the state is somehow going to be able to handle t…

> that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can

I'm sorry, this is so laughably incorrect that I had to make sure I wasn't missing some obvious sarcasm markers. A history of massive, systematic failures that the state has continually needed to correct for, maybe. If only it were so simple as private = good and public = bad.

>The state is anti-innovation

Sorting algorithms are slow. Doesn't matter which one! I just know they're slow. Don't ever sort data. Ever. Sorting = slow = bad. You'll never convince me that different sorting algorithms have different characteristics and trade offs. Sorting is bad! Okay! End of story.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#149

Post by gnopgnip »

EarthMephit wrote: post #28
optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

Smaller resturants prefer cash, because it allows them to evade taxes by underquoting their profits. The same reason that builders quote less for "cash only" prices This is one of the main reasons that governments are pushing for cashless systems, because there is less evetax evasion and increased revenue

It is incredibly rare that a builder would accept physical cash, they will be paid by check or bank transfer. Builders quote less because there is less risk of finance delays, and a greater chance of completing the project for cash buyers than those that depend on a draw and continued credit from a bank.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#150

Post by deletesweden »

hsson wrote: post #138
callesgg wrote: post #62

What a click-bait title, swedes as a people has said nothing like this. As a swede i see no indication of it at all. It i more like the exact opposite, most people seam to hate cash and take every opportunity to move away from it.

This is my experience in Sweden as well. The only people I've heard complaining about the move away from cash are older generations (65+) — everyone else loves it. The e-krona initiative could solve the problem of allowing a cashless system while still giving control to the Riksbank [1]. [1] https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/financial-stability/the-financ...

So, the only people who are okay with it are younger people? Do they happen to be the ones who use smartphones instead of computers, listen to dubstep instead of music, and so on? The people who watch fucking Let's Plays? Oh well. One day we'll look back at that generation, laugh our asses off, and change the subject.
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