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Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

projekte.sueddeutsche.de

141–150 of 817 posts

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#141

I don't get why people think paying more taxes is "moral". There are a lot of things the government spends on that I don't agree with...and I'm sure I'm not alone on this.

It’s the hypocrisy that the richest and most profitable corporation doesn’t have to pay tax while the rest of us do.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#142
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving abroad, I now fully understand the feeling behind "Taxation without representation is tyranny".

You are welcome to give up your American citizenship if that income tax becomes too burdensome for you.

Good luck with that, fee has increased significantly and you may be required to pay an exit tax:

"The Exit Tax is computed as if you sold all your assets on the day before you expatriated, and had to report the gain. Currently, net capital gains can be taxed as high as 23.8%, including the net investment income tax."

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#143

As an Irish citizen, I feel embarrassed by the way we have dealt with Apple (and other behemoth corps). We simultaneously gave these organisations "free parking" and a "get out of jail free card". I don't blame Apple for taking advantage though. I would.

That free parking increased Ireland's economy by nearly six fold in a mere 25 years. It took Ireland from a second tier economy, to a first tier economic power ($300b in GDP with a mere 4.7m people). From sub $15,000 GDP per capita in 1993, to surpassing the US in GDP per capita at $62,000. You can tell it's the large foreign corporations causing it, because of the big gap between the growth in domestic income and th…

GDP per capita doesn't seem like the best metric to track the growth of "Ireland's Economy" if it doesn't translate into more jobs/taxes/etc. though. Would you happen to know whether these development incentives have actually befitted the Irish people?

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#144
post #116
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

Playing devils advocate here: > What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. How about a startup providing "tax-optimization" for the masses? Keep a cut of the money saved: win-win. Or win-win-lose, if you include the state.

How would this possibly work? Just throwing out the word 'startup' doesn't solve anything. The only way to reasonably take this comment seriously is as subtle sarcasm.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#145
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

A summary:

Small Business -> Small government tax breaks and benefits

Medium Business -> Token government tax breaks and benefits

Large Business -> Vast government tax breaks and benefits

---

Poor people -> Small government tax breaks and benefits

Middle class -> Token government tax breaks and benefits

The Rich -> Vast government tax breaks and benefits

---

It is quite astonishing that in 2017 that we are still astonished by this.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#146
post #99
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

By default, big companies always get preferential treatment from governments. Open a mega-factory? They get tax cuts, cheap real estate, free utilities. Why? Those shiny new jobs look great on a politician's resume for the next election... What does the little business guy get? A letter of "don't forget to pay your taxes in full or else" It's time to accept the fact that governments are NOT a fair and impartial warde…

Well, the flip side of this is that the society we build and paid for with income tax has become a huge risk because of automation.

We’re wealthier than ever, but we can’t use the wealth to society, because we’ve moved it from the masses to the few.

Now this probably isn’t a popular thing to say in American contexts because it sounds like socialism, but historically the levels of inequality we’re seeing now have lead to only one violent outcome.

We’re not in danger yet, the middle class isn’t starving after all, but if we don’t radically change taxation to match modern society then we’re going to be fucked in 25-50 years. Because we’ll desperately need a model for society where not everyone has to work.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#147
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as an US citizen you still use some US benefits like the army and international protection, right? (I'm not from USA or currently living abroad but i think that is "fair")

This is incredibly stupid. A US citizen abroad gets very little additional protection from the "army and international protection" that the other citizens of the country in which they are generally resident get; i.e. a US citizen in Germany or Japan gets a lot and a US citizen resident in, say, China or Indonesia gets nothing. This is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard for this kind of wacky double taxati…

How else would you sell global taxation to people? People try and find all sorts of reasons why they're paying taxes to their home country when living abroad, while others aren't.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#148
post #66

While I do agree with the point that "govs should fix taxes, not corporations"... Still. It's a fact that (at least in the EU where I live) the majority of tax burden ends up on small companies - mom & pop shops, little bakeries etc. Who simply can't afford these global tax avoidance tricks (or can't use them because they're "local") Not that this is wrong or right, just a fact you can't argue with. I run a small sof…

So I live in Poland and it's not really a secret that small companies can and do optimize their taxes by registering in the UK (mostly self-employed professionals) or Czech Republic (small companies / family businesses). It's not like you can avoid taxes, but the difference for a self-employed programmer is non-trivial, like getting a 13th monthly salary every year. The Czech deal is done mostly for simpler tax code and better handling of car-related costs. I've seen many luxury cars on the roads with CZ license plates recently and I can guarantee it's not because a sudden influx of Czech tourists :) There are probably more schemes I am not aware of, but these two are popular enough that you get tons of adsense ads when looking for them (i.e. there are companies / accountants specializing in setting this up).

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#149
post #99
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

By default, big companies always get preferential treatment from governments. Open a mega-factory? They get tax cuts, cheap real estate, free utilities. Why? Those shiny new jobs look great on a politician's resume for the next election... What does the little business guy get? A letter of "don't forget to pay your taxes in full or else" It's time to accept the fact that governments are NOT a fair and impartial warde…

There is a lot of double think today around issues of fairness and justice, most of it lends towards enabling ideas consistent with movements towards centralizing powers, and authoritarianism. Small business enthusiasm--consistent with individual determination, responsibility, democracy, and consumer rights & choice--is just passe. No one is tweet storming about "small business rights."

Or, let's just go trip over all the homeless on the way to work in the Bay Area while tweet storming about the imminent dangers of mansplaining to society.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple do pay their taxes just like you for everything they sell in the US. It's what they sell outside of the US that they don't pay, but they do pay in those other countries. The biggest unfair advantage they have against you is if you sell to overseas markets (you're paying US tax, not them) but if your market is US only then Apple isn't paying less than you are.

While I appreciate the sentiment it is time to start taking a more global look at these antics of companies. I run my own company in the UK and I know for a fact that apple makes a massive amount of money selling in this country. Now as a small business owner I am taxed at 20% on corporate profit. (19% going forward now due to a tax cut in corporate rates introduced during the last financial year). You then also get…

I have been having the exact same argument with a friend on Facebook (I know, I know)... There is something about this whole thing that people seem to rationalize. My friend's ultimate argument was "well they pay more tax than I will in my lifetime anyway so what's the big deal". I had to give up in the end.
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