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USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

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Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#141
post #58
post #17

Two points: 1) Given that the numbers did indeed end up proving that wage arbitrageurs like Accenture were dominating the H1B lottery [ https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcin... ], reform would seem to be necessary. 2) Trump has repeatedly called for a Canadian or Australian style skills-based immigration system to replace chain and quota-based immigration. One would think HN would generally sup…

I would also assume that few here would take issue with merit-based immigration policies. The problem is arguably whether you trust Trump to actually do what he says, especially when he uses immigration policy as a dog whistle when preaching to his core vote.

> The problem is arguably whether you trust Trump to actually do what he says

Is Trump even the one doing it? I thought this was the job of congress?... this seems well out of the scope of an executive order.

Hopefully they do end up copying Canada/Australia directly because they've both performed really well and there is plenty of data there to support it. Instead of the usual series of minor bandaids on top of the old broken system, ala the US healthcare system.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#142
post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

You have a really mercantile view of things: Team Murika is gonna Win the Trade War by signing all the primo players from the other teams! An alternate way to look at this is that the economy and society of the USA is failing its own citizens by either giving them an inadequate education or not providing them opportunities to succeed. And your proposal is to simply write everyone who's already here off, declare them…

> so long as the USA stayed the land of fairness and justice.

That ship sailed a while ago.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#143
post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

This narrative is frustrating because it's just not true. The vast majority of H1B visas are not bringing in that level of talent. The program is gamed by offshoring firms that take the lions share of the available visas. For every super smart foreign student we bring in we also bring in 3 really mediocre and talentless offshoring workers.

I completely 100% agree that the US is losing its edge in many ways. And a real visa program would help. But at the moment the H1B program is bad for almost everyone involved, unless you own stock in Infosys/Tata etc.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/03/companies-h1b-visa-holders/

We need to replace it with a real immigration program that weeds out the crap and brings in the best. As it stands super smart people are getting their visas denied while offshoring firms depress wages and take American jobs while producing sub-par products.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#145
post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

There’s a lot of alternate reality with work visas, and many, if not the majority of the positions are there because of cost, not skill.

The process should be onerous enough that the body shop business that places cheap candidates with marginal skills shouldn’t be a good business, but not too onerous for the high talent individuals for whom it is intended for.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#146

It's great that these RFE's are happening, and Trump should have closed things up even earlier. There are plenty of people with skills out there who may not know every feature of Vue.js 2.5.3, or who are 30 years old and thus "not a culture fit". Companies will start having to look for these people instead. Enough is enough. There's not even an argument, it's whether the programmer gets to make a salary in an industr…

> or apply for a green card.

Which they do when they arrive here on the H-1B. It takes decades and they now have to go through even more stress about it because of this.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#147
I feel like a lot of the arguments around immigration - including H1-Bs - boil down to two pretty straightforward opposing views of immigration:

1) "We" have built something great and unique, and we want others to be able to partake of and contribute to it, but the greatness and uniqueness of it is special and we want to preserve that. This is the more conservative view.

2) "We" have an environment where great things can happen, and so we want to bring people into it and add their greatness to it to make it even greater. There is nothing special about what we have, nothing that warrants preserving, and in fact change - constant, disruptive change - is naturally good. This is the more liberal view.

It bothers me that (1) is often conflated with racism, admittedly (the bothering part) because it's something I happen to agree with despite being mostly liberal on other issues. I DO think we here in America have a culture worth preserving, and while I want to open it up as much as possible to the world, I won't support doing so to the detriment and/or dissolution of what we have. I don't think constant disruption is naturally good; I didn't when I was younger and I don't think it is now.

But anything even approaching a whiff of something like "preservation" is immediately labeled racist dog-whistling (which seems insane to me). Any kind of "hey, maybe non-Americans are trying to exploit this and that's not good" is racism. Saying that perhaps as much diversity as possible even if just for diversity's sake in all things is maybe not the best thing - again, racism.

We need to recognize that there are real, non-racist and completely rational and informed reasons why people are uncomfortable with things like H1-B abuse, and that we don't all agree on what immigration should be or accomplish.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#148
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education I'd like to hear the list of places doing far better than MIT, Caltech, Stanford, Berkeley, etc. in STEM fields. I mean I know there are pretty good schools around, but can you really say MIT is "lagging far behind" them? > higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive That's because when you buy "higher education" in US you buy something enti…

> Mediocre Japanese student can remain in Japan and be relatively OK. Mediocre student somewhere in talent concentration point is screwed - he's where the top talent of the world is, and has to compete with them for any nice opportunities. Given the lower salaries and longer working hours in Japan, I'm not convinced that the mediocre Japanese student is better of than the mediocre US student. Even if the Japanese stu…

If you go to a "pretty good" college in Japan (Most often the "March" colleges and above", generally you have a solid paycheck, good social prestige, and decent (though declining) job security. The high level of public infrastructure and low cost of living (compared to US coastal cities, even Tokyo is cheap) means that your dollar (or yen) goes much further than in NYC or the Bay Area.

Overall it's not too bad a deal compared to the bifurcating job outcomes we see in the States.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#149
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a good point, however most of the immigrants in the 1920s were from europe. Now that is not the case, they are mostly from asia and southeast asia. There is an argument that there is enough of a cultural difference for it to affect the country one way or another.

You know, HN usually slaps me on the wrist for insinuating that someone is a white nationalist, which is why I was pretty low key about it, so.. thanks for just coming out and admitting it, I guess?

stating that regional cultures have more or less similarities and would entail more or less cultural shift doesn't make one a 'white nationalist'..

which itself is a conveniently ambiguous phrase.

FDR was white. FDR was nationalist.

Was he a 'White Nationalist'?

certainly not, but if he publicly held the same political positions he held less than a century before the label would more than likely be applied.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#150
post #75

If your business can't survive without indentured labor - that's on you. Simple as that. The H1B situation could be fixed overnight by declaring the minimum wage to be... one million dollars. Then we'll see it genuinely only used for rare talent.

> only used for rare talent.

Not the purpose of the visa.

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