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Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

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Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#141

Post by walloning »

swendoog wrote: post #27

Everyone hates a cynic so bring on the downvotes: I'm going to warn everyone of what's coming. Software engineer jobs will be blue collar, $40-$60k a year jobs, by 2030. The HUGE push from government, and private business, to fill the PERCEIVED lack of engineers, will come to fruition around that time. Make no mistake about it - there is NOT a lack of skilled engineers right now. There is a disinterest among business…

Alternatively, more software engineers means that the market for information technology can become more fierce and competitive in a good sense. Chinese workers have work not because there are only a few but because they are innumerous.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#142

Post by madamelic »

School-Cotton wrote: post #97
mlloyd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe - or maybe it just requires a specific way of thinking about things i.e. Problem Solving and Time/Task Management? As well as the ability to learn the task of course.

What's the difference between "problem solving" and "IQ" ? They seem like almost the same thing.

Problem-solving: the ability to deconstruct a problem into atomic pieces and construct solutions

IQ: How fast you do it.

tl;dr: Problem-solving is software, IQ is hardware

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#143

Post by Mc_Big_G »

Before you go patting Google on the back, consider this. They stole money from engineers by colluding with the other big players to keep engineering salaries artificially low and now want to use some of that money to train more workers to create more supply which lowers salaries even further.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#144

Post by vkou »

cromwellian wrote: post #104
swendoog wrote: post #27

Everyone hates a cynic so bring on the downvotes: I'm going to warn everyone of what's coming. Software engineer jobs will be blue collar, $40-$60k a year jobs, by 2030. The HUGE push from government, and private business, to fill the PERCEIVED lack of engineers, will come to fruition around that time. Make no mistake about it - there is NOT a lack of skilled engineers right now. There is a disinterest among business…

"PERCEIVED lack"? Doesn't the fact that salaries are sky rocketing essentially disprove your point? Why are the salaries getting pushed higher and higher? Because demand for SWEs is outstripping supply. This to me looks like the same kind of privileged outlook that other professional guilds like the AMA desire. Do you want cheaper healthcare, or doctor compensation to keep going up? Hey, letting nurse practitioners t…

> Yes, the good times for software engineering will come to an end. I'm a software engineer, this will affect me. But the question is, do I have a natural god given right to have a ballooning salary every year, while fighting attempts to increase labor supply that might cut that growth rate?

Does our owner class have a natural god-given right to a 6% return on their investment every year, for doing nothing?

They are certainly spending their energy on fighting attempts to spread the economic pie around. We need solidarity, not shaming people for protecting their means to make a living.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#145

Post by colemannugent »

zjaffee wrote: post #123
swendoog wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can't share that optimism. I taught myself to code using youtube videos and books. There are 14 year olds on YouTube coding iOS video games in a matter of weeks. Combine that with the fact that big companies (like Google) release SDKs that make application development trivial, and you've got a recipe for the skill cap lowering along with wages.

Do those apps that 14 year olds work on require an in depth understanding of how threads work? How different hardware components work together at scale? Most people with CS degrees never acquire the skillset to do such work, why should I believe that those who are trained via job training programs will be able to do so. I'd be more afraid of potential retraining of other highly skilled workers who want to switch care…

>Do those apps that 14 year olds work on require an in depth understanding of how threads work?

I am constantly surprised that when other CS students in my classes have zero idea how anything beyond the particular language we're learning works. Even in higher skill-level classes that require a fair amount of proficiency with the language if you asked what the length of the pointer they just properly used was all you would get is blank stares.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#146

Post by HillaryBriss »

arjie wrote: post #131
Apocryphon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. 19th century unions in the U.S. were often racist and or nativist, seeing non-WASPs workers as a threat. But surely a unions formed by 21st century tech workers with over a century of historical wisdom and the modern day spirit of innovation should be able to do better, no?

I sincerely cannot tell if you're being sarcastic or not. The first order of business of any tech union will be to stall the H1-B program and then follow that up with strict gatekeeping rules. Just read HN, a supposedly enlightened class of programmers. It's all short term protectionism from people insecure of their ability.

1. it seems to be more complex than that. i mean, if you look at, say, the SEIU's position on immigration, it does not oppose additional immigration to the US. if anything, the SEIU has taken a pro-immigration position: http://seiu.org/cards/solutions-for-immigration-reform-expla...

2. protectionism from people insecure of their ability describes both tech workers and tech companies. Google, Facebook, Apple et al have increased their political presence in recent years with additional lobbyists. corporations love an unfair playing field as much as anyone.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#147

Post by southphillyman »

jimmaswell wrote: post #105
bradleyjg wrote: post #28

I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training. That would be far more effective both in terms of actual skills transfer and in terms of future career trajectory than Yet More Retraining Programs untethered from any actual employer or employment opportunities. We've been doing the latter since at least the Kennedy admin…

I'm thankful I found a company like that after graduating. Seemingly the only such specimen in America today. It's a giant international consultancy company that seemingly has a questionable reputation online but it was all I could get that paid anything remotely respectable and they even do paid training. It's seems to be one of a rapidly dwindling handful of paths for new grads who are graduating and finding out th…

Yup, companies like Accenture have been doing new hire "training" programs for well over a decade. It's a great way for young college grads who didn't go to one of the elite schools that the Googles of SV recruit from to get over the "Jr. Engineer with 3 years experience" hurdle.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#148

Post by grigjd3 »

bradleyjg wrote: post #28

I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training. That would be far more effective both in terms of actual skills transfer and in terms of future career trajectory than Yet More Retraining Programs untethered from any actual employer or employment opportunities. We've been doing the latter since at least the Kennedy admin…

These companies do on-the-job training. The problem is that a college degree in computer science or software engineering doesn't actually prepare you to work at these companies. It makes you effectively literate, so that you are feasibly trainable.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#149

Post by [deleted] »

Gargoyle wrote: post #96
briholt wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another major glaring problem that no one wants to admit is that lots of tech work requires (at the very least) college-level-IQ, which excludes the majority of the population. And the lower-IQ jobs are quickly being automated away.

The vast, vast majority of tech work doesn't require any exceptional intelligence. It just requires a system of thinking, one which can be...trained.

[deleted]

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#150

Post by nrhk »

swendoog wrote: post #77
olavgg wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, I see people fail learning programming over and over again. Even after three years completing a computer engineering degree, they struggle with how a for loop works, (No this is not a joke in Europe). Learning to program takes a lot of dedication and focus. Which a lot of people have no interest in, it is just too much work and too difficult. Every student that takes a engineering degree here, have to hav…

I just can't share that optimism. I taught myself to code using youtube videos and books. There are 14 year olds on YouTube coding iOS video games in a matter of weeks. Combine that with the fact that big companies (like Google) release SDKs that make application development trivial, and you've got a recipe for the skill cap lowering along with wages.

Having more code technicans is great. I'd love to have more people to help maintain shit, write documentation, do small bug fixes etc...

There will be a differentiation between Engineers and Coders soon. Hooking up to a few different APIs, doing some JS and HTML does not count as engineering.

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