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Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

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Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#61

Post by baursak »

cm2187 wrote: post #20
wehere1 wrote: post #2

always remember: the industry's involvement in CS education has less to do with philanthropy and goodwill than it does with lowering the cost of labor over the long term

High labor cost just because of skill shortage may be gratifying and lucrative for the happy few but is not an efficient allocation of resources for the wider society. Increasing the skill supply is the right thing to do. Replace "developer" with any other profession to convince yourself.

The only people who care about efficient allocation of resources for the society are socialists and academics. Certainly CEOs with multi-million dollar annual compensations don't think they're contributing to allocation inefficiencies by negotiating their compensations. Neither do doctors and AMA, who we all love and respect. Neither do military leaders or politicians, who demand half the country's budget for military expenditures. Etc, etc.

Increasing the skill supply is the right thing to do if you're Google stakeholder, or broadly speaking, a capitalist. It's much more questionable if you're in the labor force.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#62

Post by mlloyd »

briholt wrote: post #56
bradleyjg wrote: post #28

I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training. That would be far more effective both in terms of actual skills transfer and in terms of future career trajectory than Yet More Retraining Programs untethered from any actual employer or employment opportunities. We've been doing the latter since at least the Kennedy admin…

Another major glaring problem that no one wants to admit is that lots of tech work requires (at the very least) college-level-IQ, which excludes the majority of the population. And the lower-IQ jobs are quickly being automated away.

Maybe - or maybe it just requires a specific way of thinking about things i.e. Problem Solving and Time/Task Management? As well as the ability to learn the task of course.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#63

Post by blackguardx »

dyarosla wrote: post #48
bradleyjg wrote: post #28

I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training. That would be far more effective both in terms of actual skills transfer and in terms of future career trajectory than Yet More Retraining Programs untethered from any actual employer or employment opportunities. We've been doing the latter since at least the Kennedy admin…

What criteria determines who should get a position then? What salary should those positions command? Sounds pretty handwavy. Edit: responders to this comment seem to miss that the parent comment is suggesting Google hire new individuals and train them, not find talent in their workforce and do training there. Thats the unrealistic part- creating a secondary application process for individuals without the skills -- wh…

On the job training was pretty standard in the tech industry in the past. I worked with a guy at an HP (oldest high-tech co. in CA) spinoff that was the head embedded software architect and worked his way up from the machine shop in the '70s. He started out manning a drill press and learned to program when they started using NC (numeric control) machine tools.

Do you think Google lets anyone to work their way up from front desk admin or barista?

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#64

Post by 0xbear »

praxulus wrote: post #43
leggomylibro wrote: post #14

Great, it's about time that these companies stepped up to bring more people into their workforce. It's ridiculous to complain to legislatures about skills shortages without stepping up to bring your own resources to bear on the issue. Still, as nice as giving money to other organizations is, it would even better to see them actually training people from a diverse variety of backgrounds. They're not exactly taking any…

>It's ridiculous to complain to legislatures about skills shortages without stepping up to bring your own resources to bear on the issue. Do you hold people who want to fight climate to the same standard? Is it ridiculous for an individual to support a carbon tax without voluntarily buying carbon credits on their own?

Carbon credits don’t really do anything for the environment. Giving up a car, picking a smaller house, not traveling, and not having kids would be meaningful steps, but that’s not really an option even for people who make their livelihood from environmental advocacy, such as Al Gore who lives in a mansion, has 4 kids, and flies everywhere in a private jet.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#65

Post by southphillyman »

swendoog wrote: post #27

Everyone hates a cynic so bring on the downvotes: I'm going to warn everyone of what's coming. Software engineer jobs will be blue collar, $40-$60k a year jobs, by 2030. The HUGE push from government, and private business, to fill the PERCEIVED lack of engineers, will come to fruition around that time. Make no mistake about it - there is NOT a lack of skilled engineers right now. There is a disinterest among business…

How does flooding the market with more developers who can't pass their interviews help them lower salaries?

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#66

Post by sounds »

baursak wrote: post #61
cm2187 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High labor cost just because of skill shortage may be gratifying and lucrative for the happy few but is not an efficient allocation of resources for the wider society. Increasing the skill supply is the right thing to do. Replace "developer" with any other profession to convince yourself.

The only people who care about efficient allocation of resources for the society are socialists and academics. Certainly CEOs with multi-million dollar annual compensations don't think they're contributing to allocation inefficiencies by negotiating their compensations. Neither do doctors and AMA, who we all love and respect. Neither do military leaders or politicians, who demand half the country's budget for militar…

Or, more bluntly:

Google should pay high salaries. The market will supply the skilled workers when the salaries are high enough to attract more workers.

(Google does pay high salaries. If they want more skilled workers, raising their salaries is the most efficient way to get that outcome.)

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#67

Post by olavgg »

swendoog wrote: post #27

Everyone hates a cynic so bring on the downvotes: I'm going to warn everyone of what's coming. Software engineer jobs will be blue collar, $40-$60k a year jobs, by 2030. The HUGE push from government, and private business, to fill the PERCEIVED lack of engineers, will come to fruition around that time. Make no mistake about it - there is NOT a lack of skilled engineers right now. There is a disinterest among business…

I disagree, I see people fail learning programming over and over again. Even after three years completing a computer engineering degree, they struggle with how a for loop works, (No this is not a joke in Europe).

Learning to program takes a lot of dedication and focus. Which a lot of people have no interest in, it is just too much work and too difficult. Every student that takes a engineering degree here, have to have a class with introduction to coding. And everyone, except those few who enjoys computer science, says that class was the hardest class to pass by far compared to the rest.

So I believe the opposite will happen. The demand for software developers will grow beyond our imagination.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#68

Post by thatonechad »

Universities need to start focusing on skills instead of general education. Imagine the amount of skills you could learn if you didn't have to take 60 hours of nonsense credits and focus on skills you require.

Programming / Networking / Hardware need a new type of University that is similar to Trade colleges but focus primarily on the skills and nothing more. The first 1-2 years could focus on the foundations while the next 2 years focus around solid design principles and actually developing projects (real or fake).

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#69

Post by notyourday »

cm2187 wrote: post #20
wehere1 wrote: post #2

always remember: the industry's involvement in CS education has less to do with philanthropy and goodwill than it does with lowering the cost of labor over the long term

High labor cost just because of skill shortage may be gratifying and lucrative for the happy few but is not an efficient allocation of resources for the wider society. Increasing the skill supply is the right thing to do. Replace "developer" with any other profession to convince yourself.

Oh how quick we forget that we bitch about $35k/year H1Bs

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#70

Post by notyourday »

merpnderp wrote: post #49
wehere1 wrote: post #2

always remember: the industry's involvement in CS education has less to do with philanthropy and goodwill than it does with lowering the cost of labor over the long term

Programming is sufficiently hard enough, wages will always be higher than most other professions. If I could make this money just about any other way, I'd likely give it a go. But either be a PA, a doctor, or one of the lucky few who graduate law school and make good money (and I think PA's make less than most programmers I know). Otherwise be a programmer.

$35k/year developer on H1B
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