ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field • Hacker News Board

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#141

Post by beachy » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #115

beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

Sounds like you know a bit about this - any chance you could weigh in on my question above? Does tackling serve a different strategic purpose in rugby vs American football (ie., not giving up an inch can be a big deal in US football), and could this also be partially responsible for the brain rattling quality of tackling?

Sounds plausible.

In rugby a goal is to always keep the ball in possession. When you are tackled, you try and feed the ball back to your own side, who are (ideally) close behind you in support.

So yeah - yardage gain is somewhat meaningless for its own sake in rugby, as long as you maintain possession. If you maintain possession, the other team can never score, and you eventually will.

So the player's thoughts as they are tackled are less about preserving yardage and more about ensuring you'll end up in a position where you can feed the ball back to your teammates to maintain possession. Maybe that means less impact in the tackle.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#142

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

ovulator wrote: post #59

alistairSH wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other difference is rugby limits the contact to the guy carrying the ball to a greater degree than American football. In the US version, the majority of players on the field will have contact on the majority of plays.

Rugby has the same problem with big hits and concussions occurring during them as American Football, but you are right in that it is illegal to block players without the ball in rugby and that is a pivotal part of American Football. In fact the disease most discussed and studied has been Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy or CTE. The position most likely (nearly 50%) to be affected are the linemen[1], not the guys leve…

Thanks for that additional detail - I hadn't realized the CTE was so heavily concentrated among the linemen, though it does make sense.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#143

Post by eropple » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

le-mark wrote: post #137

eropple wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NFL doesn't exist without the legions of unpaid, bodies-broken, brain-scrambled college ( and high school ) athletes who get nothing for their troubles.

Plus, only elite NFL players get the million dollar contracts, the rest are at league minimum, which many silicon valley devs surpass.

I wouldn't say "many" Valley developers make more than $465,000 (rookie minimum) and I definitely wouldn't say that "many" Valley developers make more than $775,000 (a four-year veteran minimum). However, the earning potential certainly is stretched out.

Practice squad, players, however, make about $120,000 per season, which is certainly in the ballpark.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#144

Post by mcguire » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:09 PM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #6

What about the sponsorship of daredevil sports like free climbing, wing suits, etc., by consumer companies like GoPro and Redbull. I feel that we are supporting these companies with our purchases, and then they in turn create social media spectacles by giving these people an incentive to do dangerous stunts. Recently a wingsuit daredevil died while livestreaming on Facebook, watched by his young daughter and wife. It…

IIRC, most "extreme sports" are less dangerous than, say, horseback riding.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#145

Post by le-mark » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:10 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #143

le-mark wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, only elite NFL players get the million dollar contracts, the rest are at league minimum, which many silicon valley devs surpass.

I wouldn't say "many" Valley developers make more than $465,000 (rookie minimum) and I definitely wouldn't say that "many" Valley developers make more than $775,000 (a four-year veteran minimum). However, the earning potential certainly is stretched out. Practice squad, players, however, make about $120,000 per season, which is certainly in the ballpark.

Oops, I should've verified, last I remember the league minimum was on the order of $250k. Apologies!

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#146

Post by duncanawoods » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:10 PM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #53

beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

Interesting watching that video of rugby hits, noticing the legs. Perhaps it's just selection, but I'm wondering if it is rules requiring tackling above the waist, but it seems like every hit on that vid caused no leg injury; no knees got bend backwards, or jammed sideways, and they seemed to invariably fall with bent knees (which is protective as the leg can rotate with the force rather than tear ligaments). The han…

Those are not very typical tackles. Tackling by controlling legs is common but not flashy high impact events and tend to allow the player to pass the ball mid-tackle. Legs generally seemed to sort themselves out in the normal case. Main risks I experienced as a tackler would be getting a boot to the face or shoulder impact. Main risk as a tacklee is what you land on - head, shoulders but you usually have quite a bit of control in the situation so its your responsibility to land safely and ensure you keep possession for the play to keep moving. A tackle is rarely surprising. Outcomes tend to be much worse for collisions with > 2 players when players are more likely to get inverted or things bent out of shape or landed on.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#147

Post by Jeremy1026 » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:11 PM UTC

nervousvarun wrote: post #123

Joky wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another difference on tackling in Rugby: you can only tackle the ball carrier.

Not sure what you're saying here...are you equating blocking and tackling? In American football you also may only tackle the ball carrier. You can initiate contact other guys (usually in the form of blocking), and that can be very violent at times...but I don't think there's a scenario where you can tackle someone without the ball (and it not be called for a penalty).

In rugby there is no blocking. The only time non-ball carriers come into contact with the opposing team is during a scrum or accidental collision (which are quite rare).

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#148

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:12 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #88

djKianoosh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at the evolution of the sport because of the equipment. If the players didnt wear so much protective gear they wouldnt have to be so big and fast and powerful, as described a few comments above. That said they cant all of a sudden change the gear but they can evolve the rules to adapt.

This is incorrect. Football players actually wear substantially LESS padding now than in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Just go look at the pads from those eras. Players are bigger, faster, and more powerful because that makes them better players. Not because equipment has evolved. It's the training of the athletes that has evolved.

Do they wear less protective gear, or is the gear just less bulky due to improvements in design?

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#149

Post by Jeremy1026 » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:12 PM UTC

flashdance wrote: post #124

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

Most kids in elementary/middle/high school (at least where I grew up) play non-contact hockey. You're not allowed to fight or bodycheck, but incidental contact is fine. Only the super high (competitive) levels had hitting. Non-contact hockey players are three times less likely to be severely injured and three times less likely to be concussed while playing.[1] That's the direction hockey should be going, IMO. Contact…

My adult league is non-contact from the "never played in my life" level up through the "D-I/Semi-Pro" level.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#150

Post by specialp » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:13 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #105

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American football is also obsessively measured. The difference of a few yards at any point in time can be the difference of a game. Players are also obsessively measured for their performance, so every second counts towards a professional player's career - and their compensation. Players are highly incentivized to "give it their all", and that's how people end up getting injured or receive massive head trauma. Hockey…

I don't understand Rugby, Australian rules, or Gaelic football especially well (or US football for that matter, though I've watched it casually over the years), but my understanding is that tacking in these sports has a different purpose and that tackling technique reflects this. You may be on to something with you comment about yards - in American football, it can even be a game of inches. As a result, tackling isn'…

There is another factor at play here: Rugby, Australian rules, and Gaelic league wear next to no equipment. The problem with American Football is the players are geared up with heavily padded helmets. This has the effect of turning heads into battering rams. You wouldn't see 2 rugby players run into each other full steam because they don't have gear and would break bones and get cut. The gear lessens brain impact but does not eliminate it. So you then get higher impact forces that appear less brutal due to non visible trauma to the brain that is being rattled the whole time.