Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#141

Post by gertef » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

xenadu02 wrote: post #72

bagacrap wrote: post #56

Doesn't uber itself game the surge pricing? That is, they'll show you surge prices more often if you have shown a tendency to accept them.

I haven’t seen any proof but it seems like Lyft does this. I almost never accept surge prices and I absolutely will never accept anything beyond 1.5x. Often if I leave the app open or check back 30 seconds later it will lower the surge rate. It makes sense if you think about it: giving people who won’t pay surge prices a ride anyway makes drivers scarcer for those who will pay, raising surge prices even further. I’m…

Drivers are liquidity providers. If you are willing to wait, you can wait for a lower price.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#142

Post by arprocter » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 8:38 PM UTC

cpsempek wrote: post #75

During a fare, an uber driver told me that when he goes to an area with lots of drivers, he will turn off his app for a minute or so to artificially decrease the number of drivers in the area. If this is practiced by multiple drivers repeatedly, the result can cause a surge. He told me that he does this, and, that he holds training sessions where he teaches this practice to other drivers, among other things. I do not…

Unless I'm mistaken it seems like surge pricing in one area would encourage drivers looking for rides to go there, which would then cause other surges in the previous areas they were in

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#143

Post by jxramos » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 8:44 PM UTC

pgeorgep wrote: post #4

Sounds like a nice little loophole the drivers found to make a few extra bucks. It's always interesting to me when people find little tricks they can do the bend an algo their direction. This reminds me a lot of the LinkedIn algo hacks that's driving me nuts right now. If you post super long form, cheesy, generic paragraphs of text with no links/visuals - you get massive exposure. The result has been superficial post…

lol, looks like two can play at that game...

"Separate research at Northeastern University has previously found passengers can game surge pricing with simple tricks such as waiting five minutes or crossing the road."

I know I've waited out twenty minutes or so to bypass the surge or at least dampen the surge to a rate I was comfortable with. Sort of becomes an auction experience at that point.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#144

Post by kentosi » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 8:50 PM UTC

habosa wrote: post #135

ChuckMcM wrote: post #120

It seems to me this happens more frequently when the employer / employee relationship is perceived to be adversarial by the employee.

This. As soon as you have an adversarial relationship between buyer/seller (of any good, not just labor) all the bad behaviors come out. A prime example of this is the airlines. Southwest and Virgin have somehow convinced staff and passengers to be polite to each other, so boarding and other things go smoothly. The same flight for the same price on United or American is a mess of elbowing and passive agressiveness.

Passive "aggression".

Also, would this be mostly BigCo vs SmallCo culture difference? United and American are kinda massive ...

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#145

Post by gregorymichael » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 8:52 PM UTC

iamleppert wrote: post #13

A simple solution to this would be to simply limit the number of times one can log in and out per day to something reasonable, or to place limits on the frequency etc.

If you ask Uber drivers if they enjoy it, the #1 thing you'll hear is "it's flexible." They're willing to put up with all the other bullshit -- the low pay, the lack of benefits -- for the feeling of control. Chip away at that and bad things will happen.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#146

Post by criddell » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 8:53 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #138

criddell wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is a reason for regulation Uber coming along has been a good reset for the regulations. There were a lot of ineffective and counterproductive regulations in place and I think wiping them out and starting over is a good thing. Sarasota, FL is an interesting case to study. The traditional taxi companies complained about Uber in the city and rather than fight Uber, the city removed the regulations on taxi compan…

When he says the price isn't sustainable I think what he means is that investor money has kept Uber fares below costs, which is not sustainable.

I wonder if getting rid of the drivers would be enough to make Uber profitable? It would at least fix the gaming of surge prices.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#147

Post by mtl_usr » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 9:10 PM UTC

lsiebert wrote: post #129

mtl_usr wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber drivers have fair wages, considering they are working in a saturated market and competing with people with the qualifications of a 16 years old teen. There are a lot of people with these qualifications.

I believe you have to be 18 to be an uber driver.

Correct. The 16 years old bit is for the driver license where, in north america, 16 is the minimal age to get it.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#148

Post by nradov » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 9:11 PM UTC

jghn wrote: post #113

stillhere wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADA non-compliant vehicles as well. Disabled passengers cannot ride an Uber most of the time. It has been difficult to sue Uber though.

I've had a leg immobilizer and crutches for a bit now. People keep telling me I should uber/lyft around to be more mobile but I can't easily do that. My two choices are to sit lengthwise across the back seat after a lot of work scooting in or to get in the front with the seat all the way back. Both will annoy a lot of drivers and trash my rating. It's been pretty eye opening.

I'm tall, and when I use Lyft I typically sit in the front and move the seat back. Hasn't been a problem.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#149

Post by randyrand » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 9:16 PM UTC

cormacrelf wrote: post #26

mikeash wrote: post #5

Obvious in hindsight. This sort of thing is inevitable any time you have dumb software on one side and humans on the other side. I'm mostly a fan of these non-taxi "taxi" services, but it seems like they are slowly and painfully rediscovering why taxis ended up so regulated in the first place.

I am often reminded of this tweet: > Which is funnier: tech bros innovating their way to public transit, or bitcoin folks slowly reinventing financial regulation? - @PlanetOfFinks, https://twitter.com/planetoffinks/status/850848359392870400?...

The fastest way to advance your career is to switch jobs every 2-3 years.

Have we kept the same regulations because they work incredibly well? Or because we are complacent.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#150

Post by oppositelock » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 9:45 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #21

toast0 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think cabs were terrible drivers, but most of them (especially in heavily regulated markets) are very experienced drivers and simply disregard rules of the road that are inconvenient for them. In contrast, 'ride sharing' drivers seem to have no sense of direction, and are genuinely oblivious to the rules of the road. In short, when in either type of car, I fear for my life.

That's interesting. I wonder if this is a regional thing, or just different personal experiences. For me, I've never had a particularly bad Uber driver, but I've had incredibly bad taxi drivers. (My favorite was the guy who decided that driving down I-395 in Arlington was a good time to catch up on some paperwork. He kept the cab on the road, but only by using all three lanes. Thankfully it was about 2AM and nobody e…

We all have sampling bias since the number of rides we take is so small compared to the number of ride givers. I'm sure most taxi drivers and most Uber drivers are perfectly normal, safe drivers, with the outliers being the problem.

I've personally been driven by awful taxi and awful Uber drivers, though Uber so far has the distinction of being the only one to genuinely scare me driving 3x the speed he should have on a twisty road, with tires screeching the whole way.