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Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#131

Post by smsm42 »

cormacrelf wrote: post #26
mikeash wrote: post #5

Obvious in hindsight. This sort of thing is inevitable any time you have dumb software on one side and humans on the other side. I'm mostly a fan of these non-taxi "taxi" services, but it seems like they are slowly and painfully rediscovering why taxis ended up so regulated in the first place.

I am often reminded of this tweet: > Which is funnier: tech bros innovating their way to public transit, or bitcoin folks slowly reinventing financial regulation? - @PlanetOfFinks, https://twitter.com/planetoffinks/status/850848359392870400?...

You may see it as funny, I see it as refactoring. If we try it in a different way and end up with the same solution, we know it's there not because somebody 60 years ago wanted to make a quick buck out of it and then it stuck because regulations are forever.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#132

Post by akgerber »

arstin wrote: post #124
bbarn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm mostly not a fan, now that we're a few years in. Waves of people inexperienced, untrained in shuttling people around a major metro have resulted in downtown Chicago being an utter mess compared to only a few years ago. Chicago forced cab drivers to go through a training and certification course that at least forced them to understand the major routes and grid system we're on, and every time I've been in an…

Yea my experience with biking in Chicago is that at least cabs are clearly marked as such so you know they might cut you off at any moment and you'll cuss at each other. Uber drivers will just stealthily swerve into your lane and full stop. Plus the GPS systems here will take you down these speed bump residential roads and do crazy contortions to drop off on a one-way road. On the flip side though, when I first moved…

In NYC, Uber drivers are required to be licensed by the Taxi and Limousine Commission, and you can report their dangerous driving to the commission, who will fine them.

It seems like a much better system.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#133

Post by abakker »

EGreg wrote: post #85
abakker wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition in this case is really a proxy for choice. UBI should rationally be about promoting the ability for consumers to choose how to spend money, rather than being constrained to have no choices due to lack of resource. to solve the problem you are describing, people still need to have the self-interest to make good decisions, and the willingness to carry them out. If consumers won't shop around, or make price…

The problem with UBI versus, let's say, single payer, is that buyers compete and therefore drive up price. In short they "defect" from the price the other buyers pay. Think about patio and his posts in the past about increasing your rates. That's how it happens. When you have insurance, then the buyer and seller can join forces to raise prices - that's called a moral hazard.

buyers competing is OK, though, right? I was under the impression that the justification for UBI was to attack the ability to pay, which some people lack, rather than the outcome of what they pay for.

The "problem" that UBI has vs single payer is that it is not creating a command economy, but leveling the playing field in a capitalist one. If you want a single payer, you don't want a UBI, you want communism. If you want UBI, you are OK with market forces, but are using a single lever to attempt to correct for a market failure in the most "libertarian" way possible.

The only way single payer really succeeds is if you curtail consumer choice in order to achieve efficiency in what you buy - the single payer doesn't understand all the possibilities in the market. This is maybe a reasonable thing to do in sub-markets, like prescription medication, but is not such a great idea if you do it to the entire market.

If all buyers buy the same thing naturally, the price will go up, yes, but in the long run, production should also go up. If you just put a price control on it, there will always be a short supply, and too much unmet demand, even if the price for those who do manage to get the good is a great deal.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#134

Post by emodendroket »

bogomipz wrote: post #71
bbarn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it'd be hard to actually quantify the impact. Chicago's also constantly under construction, the downtown area has had major bus route redesigns with the "JUMP" routes, and that's caused a lot of congestion too. I'm not really familiar with new york's streets, but ours have been over capacity forever and now with uber/lyft there's a lot more single passenger car traffic in the business areas. Much more so than…

>"I think it'd be hard to actually quantify the impact." You would need Uber/Lyft's help I believe. But I think if you combined the Uber/Lyft data with data that the DOT keeps it would be pretty easy to quantify the impact. I think that was NYC's point as well. But unfortunately the mayor had received money from a taxi lobbying effort which allowed Uber to cry foul and make accusations of protectionism.[1] One metric…

Well... what incentive do they have to hand it over?

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#135

Post by habosa »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #120

It seems to me this happens more frequently when the employer / employee relationship is perceived to be adversarial by the employee.

This. As soon as you have an adversarial relationship between buyer/seller (of any good, not just labor) all the bad behaviors come out.

A prime example of this is the airlines. Southwest and Virgin have somehow convinced staff and passengers to be polite to each other, so boarding and other things go smoothly. The same flight for the same price on United or American is a mess of elbowing and passive agressiveness.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#136

Post by emodendroket »

smsm42 wrote: post #131
cormacrelf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am often reminded of this tweet: > Which is funnier: tech bros innovating their way to public transit, or bitcoin folks slowly reinventing financial regulation? - @PlanetOfFinks, https://twitter.com/planetoffinks/status/850848359392870400?...

You may see it as funny, I see it as refactoring. If we try it in a different way and end up with the same solution, we know it's there not because somebody 60 years ago wanted to make a quick buck out of it and then it stuck because regulations are forever.

And in the meantime a bunch of people get badly burned.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#138

Post by emodendroket »

criddell wrote: post #86
overcast wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeh, this unpopular view is now becoming popular. I've said it from the start, there is a reason for regulation. We just needed the awesome software to manage real taxi services. The price isn't sustainable, people want the on demand taxis.

> there is a reason for regulation Uber coming along has been a good reset for the regulations. There were a lot of ineffective and counterproductive regulations in place and I think wiping them out and starting over is a good thing. Sarasota, FL is an interesting case to study. The traditional taxi companies complained about Uber in the city and rather than fight Uber, the city removed the regulations on taxi compan…

When he says the price isn't sustainable I think what he means is that investor money has kept Uber fares below costs, which is not sustainable.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#139

Post by gertef »

obsurveyor wrote: post #103
losteverything wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. People learned the phone company would refund any Denied All Knowledge of a long distance call. Call up, get a credit. Then phone company said you cant DAK calls 2 months in a row: so customers called in every other month. Then, they eliminated operator handled calls for small bills. Call in, get an IVR, get a credit. Phone company caught on and limited credits to $7 per month, every other month. Customers star…

Say "agent" has always gotten me a real person when the 0 or the */# buttons don't work.

"operator operator fuck fuck fuck" usually works.

Re: Uber drivers gang up to cause surge pricing, research says

#140

Post by emodendroket »

obsurveyor wrote: post #103
losteverything wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. People learned the phone company would refund any Denied All Knowledge of a long distance call. Call up, get a credit. Then phone company said you cant DAK calls 2 months in a row: so customers called in every other month. Then, they eliminated operator handled calls for small bills. Call in, get an IVR, get a credit. Phone company caught on and limited credits to $7 per month, every other month. Customers star…

Say "agent" has always gotten me a real person when the 0 or the */# buttons don't work.

I've encountered a few that simply hang up on you if you try that but it does usually work.
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