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Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

justice.gov

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Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#141

Post by e59d134d »

Brendinooo wrote: post #70
bogomipz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And perhaps equally infuriating and insulting is this Christian company not taking any responsibility for the theft or funding terrorists. From the BBC articles; >'Hobby Lobby said it "did not fully appreciate the complexities" of the import process when it began' and >'The company imprudently relied on dealers and shippers who, in hindsight, did not understand the correct way to document and ship these items," Hobby…

So how did this go down, in your mind? The President of Hobby Lobby got his eyes on some shiny objects, then was told to make the check out to Al-Qaeda, and decided that it was worth funding terrorism to get the items he'd been lusting after? Also, would you arrest someone who purchased an item at a yard sale that had been stolen at one point? Come to think of it, should I be grilling every yard sale proprietor to ma…

There are cases of people going to jail because they donated money to charities claiming to help orphans. Government argument in those cases was that they should have "known better."

Only reason executives are not charged with treason is because they are white Christians not brown Muslims.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#142

Post by commenter98456 »

I think a lot of people on here are "fishing for a hypocrisy story" as one commentor said.

What's the point in that? what if you're right,is it a surprise that hypocrisy exists? it only speaks to the character of the individual(s) not the quality or correctness of their belief. A person did something criminal. period. what point is there to be made with respect to their religion? Did they claim their religion mandated the importation of the artifcats or the ignorance of the laws involved? or is the expectation here that people of certail beliefs or moral values are incapable of committing crimes?

Regardless, I hope the people making this about religion also hold other corporations who commit crimes to the same standard and associate their beliefs or religion with their crimes.

I for myself won't correlate an unrelated moral or ethical stand someone is making to a separate crime they've committed. Would you call a theif a hypocrite because he said he was against murder? or the same accusation to a murderer because he was against rape?

Come on... leave some room to reason.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#143

Post by Brendinooo »

mordachai wrote: post #131

If you read the indictment, you'll see that it is very clear that it was not a straightforward or honest mistake. Here's just one small tip, of many: If you're buying antiquities from a war-torn region, and the seller tells you to instead wire the money to eight different people, none of whom is him, it's possible that this transaction is not on the up and up. Oh, and a second tip: if you're legally exporting things…

> you're not really interested in the truth of the matter

This is factually incorrect (though perhaps difficult to prove). I am interested in the truth of the matter.

If you are so quickly and incorrectly judging my motives, perhaps it's possible that you are doing the same to the people in this article as well?

Do you think this article is on the front page of a bunch of news sites if it's a boring B2B with a boring CEO who bought the same stuff in the same way for her personal collection? I feel pretty confident that if President Obama was buying these (he wouldn't, but let me make the point), the arguments would be the same but the people arguing them would be reversed.

And that's my prevailing interest in commenting today. This is the forum where people will give Uber and Tesla every benefit of the doubt, so it was disappointing to click into the comments and see a mostly one-sided pile-on.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#144

Post by dragonwriter »

e59d134d wrote: post #141
Brendinooo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how did this go down, in your mind? The President of Hobby Lobby got his eyes on some shiny objects, then was told to make the check out to Al-Qaeda, and decided that it was worth funding terrorism to get the items he'd been lusting after? Also, would you arrest someone who purchased an item at a yard sale that had been stolen at one point? Come to think of it, should I be grilling every yard sale proprietor to ma…

There are cases of people going to jail because they donated money to charities claiming to help orphans. Government argument in those cases was that they should have "known better." Only reason executives are not charged with treason is because they are white Christians not brown Muslims.

> Only reason executives are not charged with treason is because they are white Christians not brown Muslims

Well, rich white politically-connected Christians. And the charge wouldn't be treason, because the charge is never treason, because of the Constitutional limits on attached to treason and the fact that any punishment can be attached to some other offense without those limits.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#145

Post by s73ver »

TheGirondin wrote: post #124
s73ver wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe those people need to be made aware that Hobby Lobby did this. And that it could have contributed to the rise of ISIS.

No one in the US has contributed more the rise of ISIS than Democrats. The current situation in northern Iraq is exactly what was predicted would happen if the US withdrew before the Iraqi government was stable enough. In response, Democrats said that the anti-government AQ forces were "freedom fighters" and said that what happened there was "none of our business." This is the "peace" Democrats wanted.

How is your extremely biased, partisan attack relevant to the point that Hobby Lobby illegally bought these relics, which quite likely helped fund ISIS?

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#146

Post by sctb »

gorkonsine wrote: post #37
xrange wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today You Learned: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islamic+state+b...

The evangelicals here in the US aren't educated enough to know there's any Christians over there. If they are, they probably consider a handful of them getting murdered to be an acceptable price.

We ban accounts that post uncivil religious flamebait like this, so please stop.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#147

Post by luddit3 »

Brendinooo wrote: post #143
mordachai wrote: post #131

If you read the indictment, you'll see that it is very clear that it was not a straightforward or honest mistake. Here's just one small tip, of many: If you're buying antiquities from a war-torn region, and the seller tells you to instead wire the money to eight different people, none of whom is him, it's possible that this transaction is not on the up and up. Oh, and a second tip: if you're legally exporting things…

> you're not really interested in the truth of the matter This is factually incorrect (though perhaps difficult to prove). I am interested in the truth of the matter. If you are so quickly and incorrectly judging my motives, perhaps it's possible that you are doing the same to the people in this article as well? Do you think this article is on the front page of a bunch of news sites if it's a boring B2B with a boring…

Tired of these tribalism arguments from the right. This is not a nuanced position like taxes. The left would not defend Obama if he tried to support terrorist groups by smuggling in stolen artifacts.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#148

Post by chuckkir »

petraeus wrote: post #86
Brendinooo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how did this go down, in your mind? The President of Hobby Lobby got his eyes on some shiny objects, then was told to make the check out to Al-Qaeda, and decided that it was worth funding terrorism to get the items he'd been lusting after? Also, would you arrest someone who purchased an item at a yard sale that had been stolen at one point? Come to think of it, should I be grilling every yard sale proprietor to ma…

Yes if you buy a $1 million diamond at a yard sale for $5 you may go to jail for being the dumbest person on earth.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/luxury/car-boot-sale-diamond-s...

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#149

Post by hsod »

Brendinooo wrote: post #132
hsod wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When does skepticism become solipsism?

An excellent question. Perhaps around the same time that underlying beliefs supersede reason.

I think skeptics uncover truth, while solipsists spread uncertainty.

Re: Ancient Iraqi Artifacts Imported By Hobby Lobby to be Forfeited

#150

Post by posterboy »

ceedan wrote: post #66
Brendinooo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in your mind it's just flat-out impossible that the decision-makers here didn't fully grasp the complexities of the arena they were entering into? The linked article says that the most we know for sure is that "an expert on cultural property law retained by Hobby Lobby" warned the company of some things and the company ignored those things. It doesn't say who heard the warning, who called the final shots, or what…

Are you that dense? That gullible to believe the PR from big company XYZ who had just gotten caught illegally smuggling artifacts from a warn-torn region of the world? Did you not read the part of the article "The acquisition of the Artifacts was fraught with red flags. For example, Hobby Lobby received conflicting information where the Artifacts had been stored prior to the inspection in the UAE. Further, when the A…

Talking about gullibility when it comes to religion is disingenuous.
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