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America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

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Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#141

Post by throwanem »

MBCook wrote: post #139
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misread my post. Black and coloured is not the same thing in South Africa. Coloured has a significantly higher rate than other ethnic groups (black and white). The clash with American terminology is unfortunate, but in this case there is no alternative.

They didn't misread it, they were trying to give you a heads-up. As an American I didn't know "colored" was used in South Africa and other than context I wouldn't have know that it was distinct from black. I'd be curious to know the difference. In the US "colored" is an old and derogatory term for black. So your sentence reads like "X and Y are this, but Y is that" where one of the Ys is a word that isn't used. I don…

That's exactly right. Thanks for clarifying.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#142

Post by _acme »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #116
quantdev wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Nicotine has mental health benefits (e.g., schizophrenia ) and is a nootropic, stimulant, and feel-good drug. By smoking, the poor are trading years in the future for pleasantness now. Calling them stupid or irrational just makes too many assumptions about their opportunities, situations, and goals.

Perhaps we could sell nicotine patches and gum without a prescription? Also, there are substitutes: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/harm-reduc... "Why have Swedes stopped smoking? Because Sweden has adopted a harm-reduction strategy: it has largely replaced deadly cigarettes with a product that supplies users with both nicotine and tobacco yet doesn’t increase the odds of dying the way smoking does.…

Nicotine patches and gum are available without a prescription in the U.S. Did you intend to be sarcastic?

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#143

Post by chc »

bdavisx wrote: post #118
kardos wrote: post #112

> Cigarette companies are focusing their marketing on lower socioeconomic communities to retain their customer base, researchers say. > Advocacy groups say funding for smoking cessation is dropping It seems like an uphill battle to let the tobacco industry tell everyone to smoke, and then try and undo that with anti-smoking campaigns. Is there a reason we can't rein in or eliminate tobacco advertising?

Seems to me like that's a Freedom of Speech issue.

Case law has established that commercial speech is not the same as other speech and is much more prone to restrictions.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#144

Post by _acme »

smokethrowaway wrote: post #121
quantdev wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Nicotine has mental health benefits (e.g., schizophrenia ) and is a nootropic, stimulant, and feel-good drug. By smoking, the poor are trading years in the future for pleasantness now. Calling them stupid or irrational just makes too many assumptions about their opportunities, situations, and goals.

Wait, what? I've never felt any of those effects from smoking, and I made sure to inhale deeply. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? Are there people who are genetically unable to get the high?

You're not alone. I've never felt any effects from smoking cigarettes. I think the effects are incredibly minor compared to those of other substances, to the extent there are effects at all.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#145

Post by toomuchtodo »

_acme wrote: post #142
toomuchtodo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we could sell nicotine patches and gum without a prescription? Also, there are substitutes: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/harm-reduc... "Why have Swedes stopped smoking? Because Sweden has adopted a harm-reduction strategy: it has largely replaced deadly cigarettes with a product that supplies users with both nicotine and tobacco yet doesn’t increase the odds of dying the way smoking does.…

Nicotine patches and gum are available without a prescription in the U.S. Did you intend to be sarcastic?

No, just unaware. I don't smoke or consume nicotine products.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#146

Post by _acme »

metaphorm wrote: post #99
ackfoo wrote: post #11

In the documentary, "A Billion Lives", the former spokesman for Winston says he was told by tobacco executives (who did not smoke) that smoking is for "the poor, the black, the young, and the stupid".

would add to that, perhaps, "and for foreigners". Tobacco sales in developing countries are huge. China alone keeps them in so much profit that almost don't care what happens in America.

I think people in developing countries would count as "poor" under this executive's analysis.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#147

Post by k__ »

quantdev wrote: post #135
smokethrowaway wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? I've never felt any of those effects from smoking, and I made sure to inhale deeply. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? Are there people who are genetically unable to get the high?

That's very strange that you've never felt stimulation or increased focus from nicotine! It's possible that you have some genetic variation that causes that or it's possible you're just not self aware, but I couldn't say which. For an incredible overview of the benefits and harms of nicotine, see Gwen: https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine

Same here.

Never got into smoking tobacco or weed, both just made me feel bad.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#148

Post by [deleted] »

Pxtl wrote: post #80
protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

Not to mention self-medicating. Cigarettes are expensive but they're cheaper than dealing with mental health issues for the uninsured.

[deleted]

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#149

Post by wmeredith »

Pxtl wrote: post #80
protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

Not to mention self-medicating. Cigarettes are expensive but they're cheaper than dealing with mental health issues for the uninsured.

Nicotine is also an appetite suppressant. During my leaner days I would often choose cigarettes over food when I could not afford both. (I am no longer poor, nor a smoker. I am about 20 pounds heavier though.)

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#150

Post by coldtea »

Pxtl wrote: post #82
coldtea wrote: post #48

The decline of the middle class and the huge explosion of the riches of the rich class will ensure that rich and poor in 50 and 100 years look and live like different species... Slum dwellers and "city trash" on one hand, and 150 year old clean shaven organic vegan genetically modified uberlords on the other. Warlocks vs Elois all over again...

Except that wealth is consolidating into the cities where you can't hide from poverty within gated communities.

You'd be surprised.

Not sure what you mean by "hide", but you can sure avoid it. You can even have the worst slums next to incredibly luxurious millionaire houses -- like in India for example, without ever bothering to cross paths.

(An urbanist called Mike Davis has written some very important books on the subject I can recommend, e.g. concerning closed communities in LA, modern slums, privatisation of parts of public urban space to keep the poor out, etc.).

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