A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off • Hacker News Board

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#141

Post by dageshi » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

jimmywanger wrote: post #58

dudul wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not one to get outraged easily, but seriously this story is shameful. They needed the seats, fine. They asked for people to volunteer and no one did? Did they even offer maybe a 1st class on a flight taking off a few hours later? I can't imagine that out of more than 100 people they wouldn't find at least 4 interested in waiting in the airport to travel 1st class. They handled that like bozos and I can absolutely…

> I can't imagine that out of more than 100 people they wouldn't find at least 4 interested in waiting in the airport to travel 1st class. Apparently they did. The law is pretty clear on this. You can be refused a flight for this reason - United decided that they wanted the seat for their employee more than the passenger. Once the passenger starts resisting, he/she should get removed by any means necessary, up to and…

I don't think your average person will view this as being "fair". Specifically already being on the plane and effectively being evicted from your seat for no fault of your own I would call "unreasonable".

Public opinion I think will also be very "unreasonable" regarding United in these circumstances.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#142

Post by crooked-v » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

67726e wrote: post #130

vwcx wrote: post #101

The real thing to fear here is the normalization of violence. Good perspective in the WP comments: "The truly shocking thing here is that violence - with the real possibility of serious injury - was viewed as appropriate in a situation that was purely logistical. The airline wanted seats for its own employees. This was not an emergency - such as a terrorist attack or a drunk passenger endangering people. The lack of…

So what do you do when someone refuses to leave? I'm on the doctor's side, United should not overbook a plane and bump a customer to get their own people on board, but when someone refuses to leave what other options do you have? Taze him and drag him off? You'll have to use force to remove someone.

Pick them up and carry them out. If necessary, bring in more people so that you can pick them up and carry them out without hurting them.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#143

Post by walterbell » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

mastax wrote: post #121

xapata wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever decided to force the guy off the plane is an idiot. They could have simply raised the comp for volunteering slowly until someone took the money.

According to Reddit hearsay they offered increasing amounts up to $800 but no one budged. One passenger offered to leave for $1500 and the crew laughed. I'm assuming there's corporate policy that puts a maximum cap on compensation.

Delta paid more than $1000 to passengers in a similar situation: https://consumerist.com/2017/04/10/one-family-earned-11000-b...

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#144

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #74

jessaustin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The passenger was attacked by a random big dude in blue jeans. Sure there were uniforms looking on with approval, but this guy looked like a baggage handler not police?

Sky marshal? Doubt some random just decided to drag someone off a plane.

Watch the video. The guy is big, but he's not acting like police, and he doesn't have any sort of uniform. The two useless cops are just looking on like useless cops do.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#145

Post by xapata » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

mastax wrote: post #121

xapata wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever decided to force the guy off the plane is an idiot. They could have simply raised the comp for volunteering slowly until someone took the money.

According to Reddit hearsay they offered increasing amounts up to $800 but no one budged. One passenger offered to leave for $1500 and the crew laughed. I'm assuming there's corporate policy that puts a maximum cap on compensation.

There is. Delta says $600 for a 4-hour forced rebook and up to $1200 or $1400 for longer. Can't remember the exact amount.

Ah wait, I think it's some formula based on miles and delay.

Regardless, it's some arbitrary cap for no good reason.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#146

Post by gizmodo59 » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

67726e wrote: post #130

vwcx wrote: post #101

The real thing to fear here is the normalization of violence. Good perspective in the WP comments: "The truly shocking thing here is that violence - with the real possibility of serious injury - was viewed as appropriate in a situation that was purely logistical. The airline wanted seats for its own employees. This was not an emergency - such as a terrorist attack or a drunk passenger endangering people. The lack of…

So what do you do when someone refuses to leave? I'm on the doctor's side, United should not overbook a plane and bump a customer to get their own people on board, but when someone refuses to leave what other options do you have? Taze him and drag him off? You'll have to use force to remove someone.

Why should he leave in the first place?

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#147

Post by btbuildem » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

pfortuny wrote: post #23

The fact is that you agree to lots of things when boarding a plane (buying a ticket). Not knowing the law is not an excuse. So... It is annoying and terrible but it is ehat it is.

You agree to get your head kicked in by thugs every time you board an airplane?

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#148

Post by Myrmornis » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

So many American police officers are violent thugs under a very thin veneer.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#149

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

vwcx wrote: post #101

The real thing to fear here is the normalization of violence. Good perspective in the WP comments: "The truly shocking thing here is that violence - with the real possibility of serious injury - was viewed as appropriate in a situation that was purely logistical. The airline wanted seats for its own employees. This was not an emergency - such as a terrorist attack or a drunk passenger endangering people. The lack of…

I think United were wrong here (maybe not legally) but morally and, even from their self-interest they took a major PR hit. People involved in this should be getting termination letters immediately.

However, I am curious. Once they made the decision to remove him. How could they have done so if he didn't want to move? A taser?

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#150

Post by zeveb » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #95

jfk13 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their 'contract of carriage' allows them to IDB (Involuntary Deny Boarding) to passengers due to overselling, and bump people off at-will. But my understanding from the article is that the problem here was not overselling; they decided to give priority to moving their employees around over providing the contracted service to ticketed passengers. It's hard to see how that's justifiable even by the letter of the law.

If there's equipment waiting in Louisville, and another entire plane isn't going anywhere without them, that's how its justifiable. IDB means you can (legally) be physically removed from a flight. With that said, don't drag people off your flights. No matter what it costs you to get staff where they need to be when you make this mistake, it'll be cheaper than the negative publicity of a physical altercation removing…

> With that said, don't drag people off your flights. No matter what it costs you to get staff where they need to be when you make this mistake, it'll be cheaper than the negative publicity of a physical altercation removing a passenger (even if you need to retask a commuter aircraft just to relocate the crew, or ask another carrier to get them there).

Of course, that just gives a hecker's veto to anyone insubordinate enough to refuse to leave. What they probably should have done was select another passenger, and have police waiting for the recalcitrant passenger at the destination airport: that would satisfy the need to get personnel to their destination and ensure punishment for someone violating his contract and wouldn't cause a scene.