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Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
141–150 of 228 posts
Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#142"3D laser printer" probably means a Glowforge. Nobody else calls them that. Their documentation says "Lasers normally require some ventilation via a small tube out a nearby window. Our optional Air Filter that sits under Glowforge and ventilates using HEPA filters and charcoal, meaning no outside ventilation is required." That won't do much if you cut something that emits carbon monoxide when heated. That includes so…
Yeah, in my lab we prohibited cutting anything with chlorine, including PVC and polycarbonate. The results are really bad anyways, it melts and burns. I'm curious though, can you get good cutting of polycarbonate using an inert gas shield? That would be interesting.
Polycarbonate has no chlorine.
Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for saying that, I had no idea CO stays in the body so long. I thought you could just breath fresh air and clear it form your system quickly.
You're correct. Breathing "fresh" air will drop the CO levels in your blood by half every few hours.
A few hours is a lot slower than I'd imagined.
Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
From Glowforge's website, for their base model: > It needs ventilation via the provided 4″ diameter (10.2cm) hose. We recommend putting the hose out a window.
I'm guessing this is undergoing a hurried rewrite, to add something along the lines of 'or you may die.' they're gonna get sued out the yin-yang for this even if the dead couple totally ignored the instructions, on the grounds that the instructions didn't state the danger clearly enough. Having said that, while good safety information is important, two MIT-trained engineers should really have known better.
Glowforge company is upthread, says the deceased were not customers of theres. Presumably it's a different brand of laser cutter.
That said, I'm assuming Glowforge is going to scramble to make sure that users use their device safely regardless.
Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#145CO poisoning is cumulative. It takes a long time for CO to get unstuck from hemoglobin. (About 2 weeks, IIRC.) It could have snuck up on them slowly, then one evening with the cats "napping" they felt particularly tired and thought to themselves, "We must be in hibernation mode from the chilly weather," then they went to sleep then never woke up. CO is odorless. You might get a headache, or you might only feel tired.…
I recently started getting very interested in air quality in my house. I decided to take a similar approach to air quality that I do with the stock market: lots of small, well distribute bets whenever possible. For context, our house is 3 levels with a furnace in the basement (cold climate; Canada) I ended up with 3 different brand of CO detectors, 2 different brands of smoke detectors and 1 radon detector. By far th…
> VOC
Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are organic chemicals that have a high vapor pressure at ordinary room temperature.
Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
3-4 hours is "a bit" when compared to the multiple weeks the GP suggested... You should absolutely seek medical treatment if you suspect you have been exposed to CO. I'm not trying to make light of that. My point is simply that CO is not actually as "clingy" as some in this thread are making it out to be. I am a paramedic. We carry a portable CO meter on our "BLS bag" (the bag that gets brought in on the vast majorit…
>We carry a portable CO meter on our "BLS bag" // Do you carry other equipment for personal protection like that (or the long version - what's in the bag!?)?
"Standard" PPE (personal protective equipment) is basically our standard uniform[1], plus nitrile gloves and a radio. Additional levels of PPE include safety glasses, gowns[2], and full face shields. We also carry ballistic vests in the event a potentially violent scene.
We are a combination fire/EMS agency, so I am also a firefighter, with all the gear that goes along with that.
As far as the bags go, we have three main bags:
-The "BLS" or "Airway" bag, which contains a lot of "basic" equipment (bandages, oxygen, some common meds, etc), as well as more advanced airway management equipment (laryngoscopes and endotracheal intubation tubes, etc).
-The "ALS" or "Med" bag, which contains all ~30 medications we carry, as well as IV fluids and all the necessary pointy things to get medications into people.
-The "Pediatric" or "Peds" bag, which contains most of the same stuff as the other two bags, just in smaller quantities, and sized for kids.
There are also a few other more specialized bags (the burn bag, the trauma bag, etc), and portable equipment (portable heart monitor[3], suction[4], etc)
[1]: Stock photo of a standard "class b" uniform: https://www.lansinguniform.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Fi...
[2]: https://www.spservices.co.uk/images/products/pics/1407156050...
[3]: http://www.physio-control.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=2147484...
[4]: https://www.boundtree.com/s-scort-iii-suction-unit-596400-ph...
Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm the CEO and cofounder of Glowforge - we're so saddened by this tragedy. Our product was not involved, but that doesn't make us feel any better about this loss. If you use a laser, ours or anyone else's, please go back right now and re-read the safety instructions. Accidents like this should never happen. My heart breaks for those affected by this.
OK, it's good to know it wasn't yours. Thanks. It would be appropriate to put a CO detector in your units before somebody does that with one of yours. That definitely needs to be in the "filtered" units that are supposed to operate with no ventilation.
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Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#148Hi folks. Val and Roger were dear friends, and I am on the ground here, and I'd like to respectfully ask that you refrain from speculation. The press is rushing to print sensational items, and they don't know the actual facts. I've been talking to the police directly, and nothing is conclusive yet. Nothing has actually been ruled out, nor determined to be the cause. They don't even have full toxicology reports yet, t…
Deep condolences to you and to their friends and families. x
Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#149Tragic. Recently California started requiring carbon monoxide detectors in most homes.[1] Make sure you have one. That's a surprising cause though. How much CO can a laser printer/cutter produce, worst case? [1] http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/Planning_and_Development/Housin...
New York has a similar law: http://www.amandaslaw.org/
As both a maker and a firefighter, I would be _very_ surprised if CO from a laser cutter was actually the cause here. Laser cutters can absolutely emit harmful fumes, but CO needs to be in the hundreds of ppm range to be fatal, and that's a _lot_ of CO.
For context, we had a call a while back where a guy was running a gas powered (two-stroke) rotary saw [1] for a couple hours in a poorly ventilated basement. CO levels were in the 300-400 range (and he was certainly feeling poorly).
[1] Something like this: https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0804841
Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple
#150I installed two carbon monoxide detectors at my mother's house over the holidays and really we all should, it's not a big cost. This is very sad for their friends and family but most of all for the poor couple. I think it's selfish but rather human to say that when something like this happens to 'people like us', in this case referring to background, interests, and hobbies it can feel extra shocking and upsetting.