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Developers’ side projects

joelonsoftware.com

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141–150 of 411 posts

Re: Developers’ side projects

#141

Post by krschultz »

alxmng wrote: post #65

> Not related to your employer’s line of work. Um, wait. What’s the definition of related? [...] I don’t know. It’s a big enough ambiguity that you could drive a truck through it. No, it's not that ambiguous at all. The courts rarely side with the company, and only in cases where it's quite obvious the work was directly related. If your side project isn't directly related to the work you are doing, then you don't nee…

"Don't even tell your employer about side projects. Leave them out of the loop entirely."

Early in my career I did this. Now I go the exact opposite tack. Tell your employer. Get it cleared in writing. If you work at a company where that is a problem, then consider your side projects non-commercial for perpetuity, or get a new job.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#142

Post by Buttons840 »

What happens if you and a few friends work on a side project and then your employer tries to claim ownership?

Do your friends get to remove their contributions while you turn over a gutted and completely broken project?

Re: Developers’ side projects

#143

Post by melvinmt »

OliverJones wrote: post #86

Joel doesn't often miss things, but with respect I think he missed something here. If you, the employee, are working for an employer you respect, and vice versa, YOU CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION! If your day job is, say, maintaining high-capacity forum software in dotnet, and you have this hankering to develop, say, a WordPress plugin to show the time of sunrise, you can talk about it. If you respect your boss and she res…

1 year later: "When you told me about your side-project, you didn't tell me it was going to be successful. Thus, I must change my mind and sue you."

Re: Developers’ side projects

#144

Post by [deleted] »

alxmng wrote: post #65

> Not related to your employer’s line of work. Um, wait. What’s the definition of related? [...] I don’t know. It’s a big enough ambiguity that you could drive a truck through it. No, it's not that ambiguous at all. The courts rarely side with the company, and only in cases where it's quite obvious the work was directly related. If your side project isn't directly related to the work you are doing, then you don't nee…

[deleted]

Re: Developers’ side projects

#145

Post by droidist2 »

st3v3r wrote: post #88
ferbivore wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it tragic how "pay a lawyer to tell you what your rights are" seems to be the answer to everything?

Not really. They're experts in law. We're experts in engineering. Doctors are experts in medicine. Would you say it's tragic that one needs to pay a doctor to tell you what's wrong with you?

But often when things come up and it's "Hire a lawyer" it feels like responding to "How do I change my password?" with "Hire a software engineer." The law is very user-unfriendly.

Also hearing that I should take the same remedy whether I have a question or I need to be defended against criminal prosecution seems strange and intimidating, like being told I should hire a brain surgeon for a migraine headache.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#146

Post by BuuQu9hu »

SFC is working on a project called ContractPatch to show that it is possible to (re-)negotiate your employment agreements so that you own copyright on your work and to help developers go through that process. Some information about ContractPatch is in this recent podcast episode and the show notes:

http://faif.us/cast/2016/nov/01/0x5E/

Re: Developers’ side projects

#147

Post by cookiecaper »

madeofpalk wrote: post #138
alxmng wrote: post #65

> Not related to your employer’s line of work. Um, wait. What’s the definition of related? [...] I don’t know. It’s a big enough ambiguity that you could drive a truck through it. No, it's not that ambiguous at all. The courts rarely side with the company, and only in cases where it's quite obvious the work was directly related. If your side project isn't directly related to the work you are doing, then you don't nee…

> Don't even tell your employer about side projects. Leave them out of the loop entirely. On this, my last company had a similar clause, but you could just run a project by the HR team and they would clear any ownership of it. I worked at a media company and I was working on a media-related side project (so definitely "related to your employer’s line of work") and they 'released' any rights to it.

Yeah, if you work somewhere you can easily get clearance, it's definitely worthwhile to do so. Then you don't have to worry. If you don't, it's probably best not to mention it, because it invites trouble and in the general sense (YMMV), it's not very likely that the company will sue you unless you actually are doing something nefarious.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#148

Post by otoburb »

mattnewton wrote: post #109
uiri wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't even tell your employer about side projects. Leave them out of the loop entirely. This depends heavily on the employer. Google, for instance, is extremely friendly towards both side projects (done entirely on your own time and with your own equipment) and open source contributions done either on or off company time. I wish more employers had the same level of transparency.

I still don't know how it can hurt to keep it a secret. Any assistance you could get taints the project's ownership, so it seems like you have nothing to gain by sharing and a lot to lose.

Sharing your side project and intentions with your employer satisfies "right of first refusal", which will become much more valuable to have brought up formally on the offchance emplyers attempt to sue for ownership.

Also, this formalizes standing on both sides; both parties will know more clearly where each stands.

Of course you may proceed without sharing, but might also end up losing more later. Calculated risk.

Re: Developers’ side projects

#149

Post by taneq »

OliverJones wrote: post #86

Joel doesn't often miss things, but with respect I think he missed something here. If you, the employee, are working for an employer you respect, and vice versa, YOU CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION! If your day job is, say, maintaining high-capacity forum software in dotnet, and you have this hankering to develop, say, a WordPress plugin to show the time of sunrise, you can talk about it. If you respect your boss and she res…

But your great, respectful boss isn't the company. It's the company, not the boss, that will be turning around and saying "nice product you made there, lucky for us we own it."

Re: Developers’ side projects

#150

Post by cookiecaper »

melvinmt wrote: post #143
OliverJones wrote: post #86

Joel doesn't often miss things, but with respect I think he missed something here. If you, the employee, are working for an employer you respect, and vice versa, YOU CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION! If your day job is, say, maintaining high-capacity forum software in dotnet, and you have this hankering to develop, say, a WordPress plugin to show the time of sunrise, you can talk about it. If you respect your boss and she res…

1 year later: "When you told me about your side-project, you didn't tell me it was going to be successful. Thus, I must change my mind and sue you."

Yeah, this is much more likely to happen if there's actually some meat to take out of your side project, so most devs won't have to worry about it. Developers should understand ahead of time that asking for your boss's word isn't going to mean anything if the side project takes off (for multiple reasons).

However, in that case, a legal fight may be somewhat tenable (though it always sucks for everyone (except lawyers)). If you got them to sign a document releasing the project, you'll be able to win that much more easily.

If you can get the signature without too much hassle, it's worth it. If you can't, it's not worth ever mentioning it, IMO.

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