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#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games have a sane money/fun ratio. If you're addicted then you might screw up your life but you won't steal from anybody to keep up your habit.

Maybe traditional games, but not the modern free-to-play games. They exploit the same techniques casinos do to get customers to buy a lot of in-game items.

and they have the added benefit of massive analytics and tracking systems to data mine user retention and in app purchases and a/b test ideas at a scale the casinos could only dream about.

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#142

"Richardson’s employer, Colombo Candy & Tobacco Wholesale. Richardson, the company’s controller, embezzled $4.1 million over the course of two years to support her gambling addiction. (In 2014, Richardson, then 54, was sentenced to 14 to 20 years in prison for the crime.) The thefts ultimately put the company out of business." So a company based on exploiting human addiction caused another company based on exploiting…

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess what I'm asking is, where is the bar for a healthy pastime vs an addiction? Is it willingness to steal from others to keep up habits? Or is it things that are addictive enough to make one forget the rest of their lives?

Well professionals talk about abuse rather than addiction. For instance people taking opiods for chronic pain are certainly addicted but as long as they dose responsibly it doesn't matter. Basically the point at which the addiction negatively affects your life but you continue anyway is when it becomes abuse.

True - it does force one into a certain path though as you feed the beast. Just as someone taking lots of opioids is less likely to drive a car, someone playing a lot of games is likely to not spend much time in the real world.

I find it to be a happiness trap myself, it puts you in a gated world which doles out satisfaction, but you can never achieve long-lasting emotional and physical well being. When the person wakes up at 40, 50 and finds a life of little achievement from what they once dreamed, now it being too late to truly make big moves... similar to people who spend all their time functionally drinking or smoking weed. Yes, you can survive, but when your working days are over and you find you have no skills or abilities or hobbies or close relationships, what has your life been for?

I've had a parent that after a lifetime of working and providing and chilling out by having beers exit the workforce and suddenly having nothing to attach to. I fear the same for my friends.

Re: undefined

#144
post #121
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh gotcha. Yes alcohol and opium are tough to keep people away from. Chantix worked the first time and within just a day or two made smoking a cigarette completely devoid of any pleasure. Zero problems with dreams. The biggest epiphany you get from quitting smoking is realizing that cigarettes aren't inherently pleasurable, smoking one just removes the symptoms from nicotine withdrawal in a way that other nicotine r…

Awesome. I would very much like to quit and will give that a go. It's not the quitting I dread, it's the deep, perilous dread I feel when withdrawl begins, only an hour or two after the last. I know rationally I can do it, I go 6-8 hours a night nic-free while sleeping and am not jonesing when I wake up.

If chantix doesn't work for you my grandma used bupropion to quit. It was a wonder drug for her.

Obviously talk to your doctor.

Re: undefined

#145

Probably because I am very fortunate; but I have never done anything but lose from Vegas games to the Lottery and poker with friends. Based on that - I think an open informational model would go a long way. I imagine this would be a history or graphing of win vs. loss and dollar amounts or similar statistics for the customer/gambler. It could be provided on say a slip of paper, presented each time the customer goes t…

Interesting idea. They tried that with smoking and it only had moderate success. I wonder if it would be any better with gambling.

"Your most likely outcome at this table is to lose 20 cents for every 10 dollars you play". Or "If you play $100 at this table you will most likely leave with $98". The problem is you'd need to find a way that actually sounds bad.

Re: undefined

#146

"Richardson’s employer, Colombo Candy & Tobacco Wholesale. Richardson, the company’s controller, embezzled $4.1 million over the course of two years to support her gambling addiction. (In 2014, Richardson, then 54, was sentenced to 14 to 20 years in prison for the crime.) The thefts ultimately put the company out of business." So a company based on exploiting human addiction caused another company based on exploiting…

Nicely spotted, I read the article and missed the irony there.

Re: undefined

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the same of kids going to play soccer with their friends? Why / why not? Has to do with the social skills that you learn and practice. Gaming is an escape from the real world in a bit of a different way - all social contact is reduced and "giving up" is as easy as a keystroke. The rewards you're getting are intangible and created by a programmer to entice you to make numbers go up or get a new hat, onl…

I think these are two different things that should be separated. Ranked games with matchmaking and hats/achievements. One can exist without the other and they pull in people for different reasons. For example most of newgrounds has achievements / hats / whatever, but no multiplayer at all. On the other hand hearthstone has ranked games but very little to do with hats (there are paid and collecting elements, but they…

Really dota 2 has stuff that you buy with $ that affect the gameplay ?

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#148
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great documentary. I'd like to see a followup on some of the people he interviewed. Some research online will show that the "Mattress King" had lost his young son shortly before this was filmed

Could you provide a link to this? I googled for "Mattress King" and found stories ie: Reddit; but nothing about his son... thanks.

Google Allan Erlick

Re: undefined

#149
My first job out of Uni was making "games" for slot machines. My soul is forever damaged (not joking). I have horror stories over how much thought goes into the "design."

In a given jurisdiction (State/Province/County) there will be rules about the payout percentage. Anywhere from 90 to 98%. So lets assume 95% percent payout. In the long run, you give me a dollar, I give you back $0.95. Most of the time its zero, sometimes its a bit more than you put in to spin and once in a blue moon its huge. But, on average, you give me a dollar, I give you $0.95.

This is where biology / psychology comes into play. All the games from all the manufactures pay the same (in the long run) in a given state (its the law). The trick is to find the magic reward frequency (think Skinner box from Psych 1000). Occasionally a huge one with not much in between? Lots of little wins and hardly any super huge jackpots? Most of the reward frequencies don't work. The person can escape thinking the game is not fun. There are a few rare evil/magic frequencies that just trap the poor person.

Here is where it gets super evil. When one manufacturer's new game starts to do well in market, other manufacturers will do research (study the content of the reels (the spinning things) from a video capture) and reverse engineer the game's math/reward frequency.

So the same way that AI RNN is a exploring a multidimensional problem space and trying to jump out of local optima to find the true optimal solution. The gambling industry is exploring the dimensions of the mind trying to find the optimal Skinner box to take all your money. They are exploiting a bug in our brains design. We evolved to run around the Savannah and throw things with weird accuracy. We just are not built to defend against it. They should be banned.

Re: undefined

#150

"Richardson’s employer, Colombo Candy & Tobacco Wholesale. Richardson, the company’s controller, embezzled $4.1 million over the course of two years to support her gambling addiction. (In 2014, Richardson, then 54, was sentenced to 14 to 20 years in prison for the crime.) The thefts ultimately put the company out of business." So a company based on exploiting human addiction caused another company based on exploiting…

The casino industry is full of contradictions. Steve Wynn's father was a degenerate gambler who died with serious gambling debts. Sheldon Adelson, who has made billions from gambling addiction, has spent millions fighting online gambling. Why? Here's a direct quote [1]:

"[My father] was poor, but he loved to gamble. I saw the cost of a family immersion into losing money on gaming. When I look at people like that, I see the faces of my parents."

Yet he has no issues with taking money from such families on an unprecedented scale - as long as it's in person. You have to be very...."morally flexible"......to work anywhere near the gaming industry. It is built specifically to create and exploit gambling addiction - roughly 50% of revenue comes from 2% of players.

[1] http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2014/10/20/g2e-201...

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