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Re: undefined

#131

Post by eric_h »

AJ007 wrote: post #105
mikestew wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: training my dogs. It is even referred to by some as turning training "into a slot machine". At first one rewards the dog every time they do what was asked. Later, the rewards are only sporadically given (the slot machine). You do a thing, maybe some coins or a piece of meat will come out. But the dog will continue to do what was asked even as the treats taper off. Eventually, out of habit and conditioning,…

Doing a count of the number of casino games on the iOS top grossing list, gambling for no payout is a very big business.

Gambling has never been about the money. Gambling is a drug, full stop. Its effects are slightly less pronounced when you can't withdraw your winnings, but you can certainly put money into those products.

Re: undefined

#132

Post by taurath »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #128
taurath wrote: post #110

Does anyone else think certain video games are the equivalent of slot machine? I'm not just talking about simple phone games, but more complex, team based pick up games as well - if you rely on a matchmaker that knows to an approximation the skill of each player, is it not randomizing ones chance to win? I live with gaming addicts and used to be one - they spend every waking hour on their pcs while not at work. It's…

Video games have a sane money/fun ratio. If you're addicted then you might screw up your life but you won't steal from anybody to keep up your habit.

I guess what I'm asking is, where is the bar for a healthy pastime vs an addiction? Is it willingness to steal from others to keep up habits? Or is it things that are addictive enough to make one forget the rest of their lives?

Re: undefined

#133

Post by cortesoft »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #128
taurath wrote: post #110

Does anyone else think certain video games are the equivalent of slot machine? I'm not just talking about simple phone games, but more complex, team based pick up games as well - if you rely on a matchmaker that knows to an approximation the skill of each player, is it not randomizing ones chance to win? I live with gaming addicts and used to be one - they spend every waking hour on their pcs while not at work. It's…

Video games have a sane money/fun ratio. If you're addicted then you might screw up your life but you won't steal from anybody to keep up your habit.

Maybe traditional games, but not the modern free-to-play games. They exploit the same techniques casinos do to get customers to buy a lot of in-game items.

Re: undefined

#134

Post by tunap »

Spooky23 wrote: post #112
tunap wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely an individual choice. Why someone chooses to continue to detriment is an infinte pool of rationalizations. I did it for the entertainment & group inclusion(poker). I justified it as I didn't lose $200, I paid for several(sometimes many) hours of entertainment. Then one time I ran out of time while I was up several hundred. The next time was again time constrained and I walked w/ $700.* The last time I met…

I almost stopped smoking, but I justified having a few at work and after work because I got to hang out with my colleagues socially, and I don't like to drink without a cigarette.

I employ the social rationalization, too. And what's a smoke break without a smoke? The secondary benefit for me is one of my early cessation attempts I knew I couldn't succeed if I drank so I quit drinking and never recommenced after I started smoking again.

Re: undefined

#135

Post by flowersoldier »

sgarman wrote: post #122
taurath wrote: post #110

Does anyone else think certain video games are the equivalent of slot machine? I'm not just talking about simple phone games, but more complex, team based pick up games as well - if you rely on a matchmaker that knows to an approximation the skill of each player, is it not randomizing ones chance to win? I live with gaming addicts and used to be one - they spend every waking hour on their pcs while not at work. It's…

Assuming it's a skill based game but you never make an attempt to get better - I see the similarities. My question is: how is that different then a sport with leagues putting players at similar skill levels - is that just gambling too since they are so close in skill the game could go either way? Many modern games have a ladder or elo system that you can only improve though increasing your ability to win (i.e. NOT ju…

"I'd argue there is at least some value in taking enjoyment from improving yourself at any task" I agree but I think the task has to be meaningful in some way. I used to play modern warfare 2 from dawn til bedtime because I wanted the 2500 headshot with the F.A.L. achievement badge. I was getting like 70 headshots/day and feeling really good about it. Then one day I realized they'll eventually take down the servers and no one will ever know how awesome I was... So I do agree it feels good to improve at something, but it's best when we improve our skill set. Like becoming a better cook, or a musician practicing their instrument. Getting headshots with the F.A.L. was fun and all, but ultimately meaningless. I think gambling falls into this category. Gambling can be fun for most people, but for some people it stops being a game and becomes something serious.

Personally, I don't gamble - I'm afraid I'd win. I have a super addictive personality and I think hitting the Jackpot on a slot machine would be the most dangerous thing ever to a guy like me.

Re: undefined

#136

Post by eric_h »

oxide wrote: post #65
l33tbro wrote: post #63

Not trying to be edgy, but it strikes me as odd that, once you remove the obvious historic legacy and economic benefits to government, problem gambling is legal in 2016, but recreational drugs are not.

since recreational drugs make gambling that much more fun, you'd think casinos would be lobbying for legalization.

The legal drug that casino's peddle is very much the best drug to extract money from patrons. Weed does not reduce inhibitions in the same way that alcohol does, the only one I can think of that would help the casino's bottom line is cocaine.

Re: undefined

#137

Post by foolfoolz »

Terr_ wrote: post #118
oxide wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

since recreational drugs make gambling that much more fun, you'd think casinos would be lobbying for legalization.

It could backfire if the user could plausibly argue they were not in their right mind and that the casino acted maliciously in allowing them to rack up a big debt.

casinos give free alcohol to gamblers

Re: undefined

#138

Post by viraptor »

taurath wrote: post #126
viraptor wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is it not randomizing ones chance to win? In a way, yes. But that's not the purpose. If you play ranked games, or any games of skill really, playing a completely mismatched game is just no fun. Imagine you want to play basketball for example, but you can't choose who you're playing with - you turn up and you're with a 2yo baby against NBA pros. Or the other way around. If there's no realistic challenge people will…

> Do you think the same of kids going to play soccer with their friends? Why / why not? Has to do with the social skills that you learn and practice. Gaming is an escape from the real world in a bit of a different way - all social contact is reduced and "giving up" is as easy as a keystroke. The rewards you're getting are intangible and created by a programmer to entice you to make numbers go up or get a new hat, onl…

I think these are two different things that should be separated. Ranked games with matchmaking and hats/achievements. One can exist without the other and they pull in people for different reasons. For example most of newgrounds has achievements / hats / whatever, but no multiplayer at all. On the other hand hearthstone has ranked games but very little to do with hats (there are paid and collecting elements, but they actually affect your play - they're not useless tokens). Then there's Dota with both.

> "giving up" is as easy as a keystroke

Kids often rage-quit games and interactions in real life games. Not sure if it's that different from this point of view.

Re: undefined

#139

Post by rconti »

italian_donald wrote: post #48
humbleMouse wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a fair analogy at all. Care to expand on it?

I was down voted to -3, so why should I expand anything? I should have know that the HN crowd loves its drugs and will not listen to facts and reason.

Well, for one, you chose a non-addictive drug, so that was a pretty silly move.

But I know, it was easier to feel that you were a rebel fighting conventional wisdom than if you had said "cocaine" instead of weed.

Re: undefined

#140

Post by Avshalom »

taurath wrote: post #132
OscarCunningham wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games have a sane money/fun ratio. If you're addicted then you might screw up your life but you won't steal from anybody to keep up your habit.

I guess what I'm asking is, where is the bar for a healthy pastime vs an addiction? Is it willingness to steal from others to keep up habits? Or is it things that are addictive enough to make one forget the rest of their lives?

Well professionals talk about abuse rather than addiction. For instance people taking opiods for chronic pain are certainly addicted but as long as they dose responsibly it doesn't matter. Basically the point at which the addiction negatively affects your life but you continue anyway is when it becomes abuse.
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