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Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

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Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#141

Post by bkanber »

executesorder66 wrote: post #85
Zyst wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Microsoft knows if they open source or port MS Office to Linux, they will lose a massive market share and millions of people will stop using Windows. That's a huge assumption. There's no real indication that people would stop using Windows if Office existed in Linux. If that were the case, then porting Office to OS X would've had a similar effect, don't you think? Ultimately I believe the reason Microsoft doesn't bo…

> That's a huge assumption. There's no real indication that people would stop using Windows if Office existed in Linux. Except for basically every thread I've seen about switching to Linux, where people say the only reason they won't switch is because they still want to use Office and Photoshop. >If that were the case, then porting Office to OS X would've had a similar effect, don't you think? No. Cost is a major rea…

> Except for basically every thread I've seen about switching to Linux

Those are people who are aware of Linux, while much of the population isn't. Selection bias at play.

> unless they port their main product to Linux

Office accounts for about 5% of MS's revenue.

> how can they claim to be cooperating when the ONE product that most people agree is a very good MS product is not available natively on Linux?

That's not the only definition of "cooperating"...

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#142

Post by lwn »

thejj wrote: post #17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend_and_extingui... Let's see how they'll try the next step.

The strategy fits perfectly: Embrace Ubuntu into Windows, let the dev community grow. Then add windows-specific hooks and additions for open-source software to build against. At last destroy the backward compatibility to end linux. This is what they have always done, why should this time be different.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#143

Post by inlineint »

zanny wrote: post #112
tn13 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more hair splitting here. Your arguments would matter in court but in general I think it is fairly easy to understand what a user means when he says Linux. For example I say Android is based on Linux.

Except that is exactly the terminology fudging that makes the conversation opaque. Android uses a forked Linux kernel, and uses none of the GNU toolchain that appears on Linux distributions. Android is based on Linux , but not GNU/Linux, and if you use just Linux as an interchangeable term for both kernel and OS including user-space, you could have gotten away with that a decade ago, but today there are enough diverg…

Android patches had been merged into upstream a few years ago [1], so its kernel is actually Linux now, not a fork.

[1] https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.3#head-b733d694037e0b34ad4...

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#144

Post by bisby »

jen20 wrote: post #134
bisby wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alpine doesn't use GNU by default. And it would fit into what I call "Linux". The "operating system" is not "technically" "GNU/Linux" - that's just what Richard Stallman wants it to be. Stallman wants the definition of "operating system" to be the fully usable system. In which case Linux won't work. You need GNU coreutils. But you need a lot of other things too, why are the other things omitted from the naming? Windo…

Stallman's definition is correct. The operating system for everyone else includes the userland and libc. Luckily this is what made LX and the Windows equivalent possible, though.

Ok then my second point stands. If I bought a new car and you said "Nice wheels" (is this slang still in use?) and I said "What you're referring to as wheels is actually car/wheels", you'd think I was an idiot.

If someone says just "Linux" they colloquially mean "Linux based operating systems" or perhaps even "Linux based operating systems like those in the most common distributions".

If I say "IE only runs on Windows", people dont argue that it doesn't run on Windows 3.11. They just know that "Windows" means "modern Windows" in this case, or at the very least, the implication that IE DOESNT run on competing operating systems. I mean, if I'm in a debate about Microsft vs Apple and I say "but for DirectX 12 and games you need Windows!" - here I specifically mean Windows 10, but "Windows" is enough to distinguish it from competitors.

If I say a game is for "Windows and Linux" or "Windows and Mac, but not Linux", its safe to say you understood what I'm talking about. And arguing otherwise means you're being pedantic.

If we're not currently in a discussion about differences between kernels or even libc implementations (in those discussions, it's safe to assume we're not using a colloquial definition), then it is safe to say that "Linux" means "Linux based operating system"

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#145

Post by floopidydoopidy »

1281281918 wrote: post #54
jepler wrote: post #7

first they mock you, then they fight you, then they coopt you, then they win.

Don't forget that we have the New Microsoft[tm] ! Source: Hacker News.

Money talks, right. These are paid ads and paid shills/astroturfers.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#146

Post by bonzini »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #103
cyphar wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (1) That's hair splitting of common usage. The operating system's technical name is GNU/Linux[1]. Many people call it Linux incorrectly, but it is actually a serious distinction[2]. I would agree however that Linux is the most widely used OS kernel. To make the distinction more obvious, can you explain what the difference is between "Linux" and Android (which uses the Linux kernel). [ Hint: the difference is that A…

Linux is a class of operating systems which use the Linux kernel. Referring to Linux as an OS, is a perfectly fine thing to generically mean 'an OS which uses Linux as a kernel' and has an agreed common meaning. Almost no Operating System is precisely GNU/Linux - most have vim, an X server, GNOME or KDE, 7zip etc. And the argument that GNU is a more principal argument is incorrect.

Uhm, you're saying GNOME, the GNU Network Object Model Environment, isn't GNU?

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#147

Post by tw04 »

afsina wrote: post #113
tw04 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's completely irrelevant. But "extorting" is more than a BIT of a stretch. They've got valid patents that Android handset makers need. Just like they need licensing to even put a cellular modem in the phone in the first place. If you honestly think Samsung would willingly hand over $10-15 per handset over bunk patents, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona you might be interested in.

Many of those patents are directly targeting Linux and all are BS. Samsung earns enough money so that they chose not to enter multi billion dollar gambit where law protects BS software patents.

A quick look at the list tells me you don't know what you're talking about. First one: using cell network and GPS for more accurate positioning.

That has nothing to do with Linux or Android directly, and everything to do with ANY CELLPHONE.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#148

Post by veuge_c »

paulddraper wrote: post #42
bomdo wrote: post #20

Apparently, being a platinum member entails donating $500k [1], so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft ($85B revenue[2]). And as the article states, there has been negativity in the linux community regarding the old arch-enemy joining their ranks. Looking at the new Microsoft however, I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish"[3] are over and they are genuinely interested in coop…

> being a platinum member entails donating $500k HP's donation isn't necessary Microsoft's > so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft So what? It's a big deal for the Linux Foundation. And that's what matters. It's not about everyone paying "their fair share". It's about ensuring a good future for the high-quality very popular open source OS Linux. The circumstances of the donor doesn't affect the efficacy of their…

HP I think it was just an example. In fact all platinum members pay $ 500K [https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/bylaws] to be able to join the meetings and being able to participate in the ballotings.
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