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Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

linuxfoundation.org

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Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#111

Post by sqeaky »

tn13 wrote: post #107
bomdo wrote: post #20

Apparently, being a platinum member entails donating $500k [1], so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft ($85B revenue[2]). And as the article states, there has been negativity in the linux community regarding the old arch-enemy joining their ranks. Looking at the new Microsoft however, I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish"[3] are over and they are genuinely interested in coop…

> being a platinum member entails donating $500k The important thing about this news is not the title or the amount. The important thing to notice that Microsoft has moved from extreme hostility to active co-operation with general Linux community. This is a good move and it benefits Linux community lot more than Microsoft. I always felt that it was needless to paint MS/Linux as some kind of zero some game to begin wi…

I don't see how this means they have stopped being hostile. For example, they are still suing android manufacturers.

I think they are doing this because they think they have to and not because they have actually embraced anything. I think they are trying to buy goodwill.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#112

Post by zanny »

tn13 wrote: post #108
cyphar wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (1) That's hair splitting of common usage. The operating system's technical name is GNU/Linux[1]. Many people call it Linux incorrectly, but it is actually a serious distinction[2]. I would agree however that Linux is the most widely used OS kernel. To make the distinction more obvious, can you explain what the difference is between "Linux" and Android (which uses the Linux kernel). [ Hint: the difference is that A…

Even more hair splitting here. Your arguments would matter in court but in general I think it is fairly easy to understand what a user means when he says Linux. For example I say Android is based on Linux.

Except that is exactly the terminology fudging that makes the conversation opaque. Android uses a forked Linux kernel, and uses none of the GNU toolchain that appears on Linux distributions. Android is based on Linux, but not GNU/Linux, and if you use just Linux as an interchangeable term for both kernel and OS including user-space, you could have gotten away with that a decade ago, but today there are enough divergent systems using Linux and not the GNU system that the distinction is required to make sense.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#113

Post by afsina »

tw04 wrote: post #110
afsina wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, MS is still extorting money from android vendors using os related patents.

That's completely irrelevant. But "extorting" is more than a BIT of a stretch. They've got valid patents that Android handset makers need. Just like they need licensing to even put a cellular modem in the phone in the first place. If you honestly think Samsung would willingly hand over $10-15 per handset over bunk patents, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona you might be interested in.

Many of those patents are directly targeting Linux and all are BS. Samsung earns enough money so that they chose not to enter multi billion dollar gambit where law protects BS software patents.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#114

Post by zanny »

tw04 wrote: post #99
zanny wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is a kernel, not an OS, and Microsoft has been abjectly hostile to the OSes that use Linux and respect user freedoms. If they weren't, they would have never pushed hostile proprietary vendor lock in tech like DirectX12 or Universal Windows Platform in recent years.

So Redhat is hostile towards Linux too then, right? Because if they weren't, they wouldn't push their competing products against Canonical or Suse. Just because companies release competing, incompatible products, doesn't mean they're "hostile" towards one another.

Redhat is not pushing developers into producing software incompatible with anything but their own system. They are actively involved in the development of almost all core software common to all distros, and even flatpak, which is meant to tear down barriers between distro package formats rather than prop up the wall.

Microsoft could push Windows all they want if they were not also pushing an ecosystem exclusive to that platform along with it. If Windows was "just another unix" and was interchangeable at the user level with other operating systems, particularly those that would respect user freedoms, there would be no issue with its nature as "default" or in Microsofts behavior in regards to its users, because there would be real choice.

Real choice, in exactly the same way Red Hat vs SUSE vs Ubuntu users have right now amongst themselves.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#115

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

MS is going all Oracle-y on us, they'll probably release a full fledged MS Linux distro soon.

(Social game: what will they call it? I'd say something like Unsinkable Linux ;-)

They should also have their own filesystem - ow, right, NTFS. I was thinking they could take another go at the database FS that stalled Vista a decade ago ...

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#116

Post by hueving »

tw04 wrote: post #110
afsina wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, MS is still extorting money from android vendors using os related patents.

That's completely irrelevant. But "extorting" is more than a BIT of a stretch. They've got valid patents that Android handset makers need. Just like they need licensing to even put a cellular modem in the phone in the first place. If you honestly think Samsung would willingly hand over $10-15 per handset over bunk patents, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona you might be interested in.

Lots of companies have "valid patents" that are bullshit and not particularly innovative but they don't use them to attack other companies when they can't compete. See Google for example, they only use patents defensively.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#117

Post by nitrogen »

bomdo wrote: post #20

Apparently, being a platinum member entails donating $500k [1], so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft ($85B revenue[2]). And as the article states, there has been negativity in the linux community regarding the old arch-enemy joining their ranks. Looking at the new Microsoft however, I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish"[3] are over and they are genuinely interested in coop…

Half the HN frontpage right now is MS articles. Seems oddly coincidental.

We can't forget about the bad MS is still doing: forced Win10 upgrades, Win10 spyware, Android patent extortion, FAT/VFAT/exFAT patent suits and licenses, etc.

The developer arm seems to be working hard, which is commendable. But looking at the rest of the org, this just seems like another Embrace round of the EEE cycle.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#118

Post by drvdevd »

tn13 wrote: post #107
bomdo wrote: post #20

Apparently, being a platinum member entails donating $500k [1], so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft ($85B revenue[2]). And as the article states, there has been negativity in the linux community regarding the old arch-enemy joining their ranks. Looking at the new Microsoft however, I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish"[3] are over and they are genuinely interested in coop…

> being a platinum member entails donating $500k The important thing about this news is not the title or the amount. The important thing to notice that Microsoft has moved from extreme hostility to active co-operation with general Linux community. This is a good move and it benefits Linux community lot more than Microsoft. I always felt that it was needless to paint MS/Linux as some kind of zero some game to begin wi…

We must also not forget that other companies have since proven that the idea of a proprietary operating system (or just kernel) as the main base of IP has started to look somewhat obsolete anyway. Now we have proprietary services and systems like Android and macOS have demonstrated that you can take an (at least partly) open source OS and slap most of the proprietary bits in userspace quite successfully. For that matter the "next version" of Windows might as well be a rebranded version of Android or something. Why keep maintaining your own OS kernel when you can have the community do it for you with a modest donation?

NT will be with us for a while yet, though I can't understand the business case for not end of lifing it at some point, especially when most of the engineers you hire don't know it well.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#119

Post by hueving »

tn13 wrote: post #107
bomdo wrote: post #20

Apparently, being a platinum member entails donating $500k [1], so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft ($85B revenue[2]). And as the article states, there has been negativity in the linux community regarding the old arch-enemy joining their ranks. Looking at the new Microsoft however, I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish"[3] are over and they are genuinely interested in coop…

> being a platinum member entails donating $500k The important thing about this news is not the title or the amount. The important thing to notice that Microsoft has moved from extreme hostility to active co-operation with general Linux community. This is a good move and it benefits Linux community lot more than Microsoft. I always felt that it was needless to paint MS/Linux as some kind of zero some game to begin wi…

How does this benefit the Linux community even more? Microsofts move to include shells and a kernel compatible with Unix may end up being one of the most damaging things to Linux in a long time.

All of the casual users that don't care about open source will just give in and use Windows as their OS when they hit a driver snag or something since they still get the userspace tools they like.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#120

Post by drvdevd »

sqeaky wrote: post #111
tn13 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being a platinum member entails donating $500k The important thing about this news is not the title or the amount. The important thing to notice that Microsoft has moved from extreme hostility to active co-operation with general Linux community. This is a good move and it benefits Linux community lot more than Microsoft. I always felt that it was needless to paint MS/Linux as some kind of zero some game to begin wi…

I don't see how this means they have stopped being hostile. For example, they are still suing android manufacturers. I think they are doing this because they think they have to and not because they have actually embraced anything. I think they are trying to buy goodwill.

All of these companies in the mobile space seem to be constantly suing each other though right? Microsoft is no more hostile than Apple or Google in this regard?
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