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A world without the Mac Pro

marco.org

141–150 of 191 posts

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think m_mueller's comment is more from a developer's perspective than a users. Microsoft has done an amazing job of preserving compatibility. Its not that Microsoft gets rid of APIs (they don't), but that they haven't stuck with a "one true" API to program Windows in[1]. Their switching of what tech you should use to build your apps is problematic. Cocoa has been a long path, but my Windows friends have had a const…

A key difference with the Microsoft approach vs the Apple approach is that on Windows the API that exposes every single feature is such a beast that developers are expected to work at a level above that API. Whether it's WPF, WinForms, WinRT, or whatever the new flavour of the day is, it's always a layer on top. And that layer is never perfect, because you still have to do the occasional [DllImport("Kernel32.dll")] i…

You use Cocoa in 2016.

There was the Object Pascal Toolbox, replaced by C Toolbox (MacApp), replaced by MPW, replaced by PowerPlant, replaced by Carbon, replaced by Cocoa.

I can list many other examples, even Cocoa has lots of deprecated APIs since OS X 10.0.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#142
post #54

> We can’t just buy hideous Xeon workstations from Dell and install macOS on them. Sure you can. Or rather, you can install the [free] VMWare ESXi hypervisor on said hideous box, and then install macOS on that . The ESXi hypervisor is an officially-supported macOS hardware configuration. Apple want you to only run macOS guests through ESXi if you're on macOS hardware, but there's literally nothing stopping you from d…

I'd love to run macOS on my NUC with 32 gigs of ram for iOS development instead of buying a shitty Mac mini. This sounds pretty awesome but I only understand a fraction of what you're talking about. Is there some kind of tutorial for setting this up?

Not that I know of. I mostly pieced the process together from disparate sources. Let me try to give you a brain-dump:

First, a point of note: one funny thing is that the VSphere ecosystem assumes, is that the ops people deploying VSphere use Windows. So the tooling around VSphere—even the unofficial community tooling—are Windows programs.

Besides the server computer I was setting up, I only have a MBP (with no Boot Camp partition), so, "step zero": I installed VMWare Fusion, and downloaded a Windows evaluation guest image from Microsoft.

The rest of this assumes you have Windows:

1. Install http://www.v-front.de/p/esxi-customizer-ps.html, and use it to generate an ESXi ISO customized for your machine. (Add network-card and storage drivers, essentially.)

The generated ISO doesn't "burn" onto a USB correctly using regular tools for some reason. The recommended Windows tool is called Rufus. I couldn't use that from a VM without a lot of hassle, but it turns out the ISO is essentially an ISO9660 export of what was a FAT filesystem, including UEFI boot files. So:

2. Extract the ISO onto a FAT-formatted USB stick. Plug it into the new machine, and pick the UEFI file in your BIOS boot manager. The installation proceeds a lot like an ncurses Linux install (e.g. Ubuntu Server.)

3. Once the machine is running, it shows a URL you can reach its web client interface at. For managing the hypervisor, this is mostly fine. (You can also enable SSH from this web console, and then SSH into the hypervisor.) For setting up new VMs, however, I found the [free] VSphere Client (https://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?langu...) a lot more powerful. Install that if you like. Again, though, it's Windows-only.

4. Create a macOS VM in VMWare Fusion. (It assists you in doing this; it just requires that you have a recovery partition on your Mac.)

5. Find the menu option in VMWare Fusion to "Connect to an ESXi server"; specify the IP the server console provides, and the admin user/password you provided during installation.

6. Go to the VM library window, right-click the macOS VM, and one of the options should be "Upload to an ESXi server". You can then pick one of your connected servers.

---

One thing VMWare wants you to do, that you shouldn't do (for a home lab, at least), is to install their Platform Management Controller, "VSphere VCenter." (You might be tempted, because that's the only way to get their modern [horribly-janky] web-app interface that exposes all the VM configuration options like the Windows client does.) The VCenter VM appliance is ridiculously bulky: it takes ~16GB of RAM and two dedicated vCPUs just to run it. It's designed to consume one whole ESXi host node of a VSphere cluster, not to assist in the maintenance of a single-node ESXi setup.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#143
post #36
post #7

> Linux can solve some pro needs, but not most. It’s a fantastic server OS but a miserable desktop one, and that will probably never change. Depending on which pro needs We're talking about, I don't believe this is true anymore. I was a Linux user for many years, then an OS X user for over a decade, and earlier this year I'd had enough with being annoyed by OS X & switched back to Linux. I am extremely happy I did. I…

How is Linux now on things like suspend/resume and wireless networking these days? I was using Linux for my primary dev laptop until 2010. Once I realized I could shut the lid and reliably wake it up -- something I have yet to see a Windows or Linux laptop do -- I switched over. (But I still use a Linux VM for the actual dev tools).

As you've probably noticed in the other replies here, opinions vary widely :).

These kinds of things are also part of why I switched to OS X in 2003-ish, so I understand the hesitation.

In my experience, Linux is perfectly fine nowadays for these things. I've been traveling a bit recently (and so have been using a lot more random WiFi access points, tethering with my phone, and relying on battery for power), and everything's pretty much just worked for me.

My company's development team is just about 50/50 Linux/Mac now, and I haven't seen any real difference between the two sides with issues for WiFi. In fact, I've probably seen more difficulty on the Mac side recently: I feel like the last few versions of OS X have had the habit of randomly dropping WiFi connections sometimes. One of my friends has an MBP that will drop a connection & refuse to reconnect until restarted (or at least he hasn't yet found a solution that doesn't involve restarting).

It's possible a lot of the issues people report might be down to hardware/distribution choices: not all hardware support is equal, and not all Linux distributions are equal. FWIW I use Arch Linux on a ThinkPad.

That all might sounds a little "works on my machine", but I'm not trying to say that the contrary stories of people having a terrible time aren't valid concerns. What I am saying is that many Linux users have perfectly stable & pleasant experiences, and many Mac/Windows users don't have stable/pleasant experiences, so ultimately YMMV regardless of what setup you choose.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#144
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A key difference with the Microsoft approach vs the Apple approach is that on Windows the API that exposes every single feature is such a beast that developers are expected to work at a level above that API. Whether it's WPF, WinForms, WinRT, or whatever the new flavour of the day is, it's always a layer on top. And that layer is never perfect, because you still have to do the occasional [DllImport("Kernel32.dll")] i…

You use Cocoa in 2016. There was the Object Pascal Toolbox, replaced by C Toolbox (MacApp), replaced by MPW, replaced by PowerPlant, replaced by Carbon, replaced by Cocoa. I can list many other examples, even Cocoa has lots of deprecated APIs since OS X 10.0.

Sure, but the Windows APIs that I mentioned aren't historical. Those are all currently supported APIs. Carbon/Cocoa was the last time that OS X has had a dual-API situation but even then, Carbon was always referred to as the transitional library and Cocoa was always referred to as what you should use for new code.

While Apple floundered during the 90s with their OS strategy, their API strategy in OS X has been absolutely rock solid.

It's now 2016, Carbon has come and gone as it was intended to and Cocoa is still around and is still the API you use for working with the Mac. If you're trying to do something on the Mac, there's going to be a single officially supported way to do it and that's it (if it's supported at all).

Meanwhile, there are three totally different frameworks on Windows that you can use to do the same thing, all of which are officially supported and none of which are deprecated.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#145
post #110
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Linux now on things like suspend/resume and wireless networking these days? I was using Linux for my primary dev laptop until 2010. Once I realized I could shut the lid and reliably wake it up -- something I have yet to see a Windows or Linux laptop do -- I switched over. (But I still use a Linux VM for the actual dev tools).

Even today the only way to make this work in Linux is to run Windows or OSX on the hardware, then VirtualBox or VMware, then Linux full-screen. Let the host OS do the tricky stuff like power management and networking.

>Even today the only way to make this work in Linux...

What? I'm running Arch with i3 right now, and networkmanager (with nm-applet for my tray) is doing just fine at finding and associating with networks. `systemctl suspend` suspends my system as desired. I'm sure if I spent some time looking, I could bind it to my power button or laptop lid.

If your complaint is that user shouldn't have to use the command line to suspend their device - I've used Ubuntu versions since 12.04 and they all have this sort of thing built in and intuitively accessible.

Were you referring to something besides network and power management?

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#146
post #136
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is subtly incorrect - what they are is "cheap generic x86" (or x64 now), that's why all those SGIs and Suns were dumped, the price/performance of the hardware. Linux just happened to be the x86 Unix around at the time. It could just have easily been FreeBSD or (if Sun weren't so short-sighted) Solaris x86. Would anyone have ditched IRIX to run Linux on their MIPS kit? Of course not because it was never about the…

> It could just have easily been FreeBSD or (if Sun weren't so short-sighted) Solaris x86. What exactly did Sun do wrong with their x86 and x86_64 versions of Solaris that you call "so short-sighted"?

They were afraid that x86 hardware would eclipse SPARC hardware, so development of Solaris x86 lagged behind "real" Solaris, and the HCL was always very small. They wanted to sell you expensive hardware, not a software license.

What actually happened was that x86 hardware eclipsed SPARC hardware... And organisations that would have been happy to refresh the hardware and keep the same OS and just recompile their apps found that they couldn't, so they jumped to Linux instead... And the rest, along with Sun itself, is history. I was working for a big Sun customer during this transition, we begged them to make Solaris x86 a first-class citizen, and we had a lot of support within Sun too but the SPARC Mafia won the day and with regret, our next big order was (IIRC) with Dell and SUSE...

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#147
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows also has an annoyment-subsystem now, reminding you to use Edge once a day when you start Chrome. That is why I am switching my last desktop to Linux in the minutes I write this post. I will not accept an OS that tells me what I should use.

I saw this while using Firefox on my wife's Windows laptop yesterday. "Firefox is using 75% of your battery. Switch to Edge." Notification pop up from the battery indicator. Really obnoxious dark pattern.

Edge uses less power than Firefox for similar browsing patterns. Why is the OS monitoring your battery life and making suggestions to improve it (this is not the only suggestion it will make) a "dark pattern"?

It does similar things with boot times (measure and report about slow startup apps) and IE add-ons. I want my OS to make suggestions about changes I could make to improve my experience.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#148
post #125

"Linux can solve some pro needs, but not most. It’s a fantastic server OS but a miserable desktop one, and that will probably never change." When I switched in 2005 I had to convince friends I wasn't crazy. I advocated for the platform. I suffered weird incompatibilities. I dealt with bad updates. I found work arounds for non-multi-platform tools I had to run. But look how stable, how much less restrictive the platfo…

I installed Ubuntu on my Macbook Air a couple of days ago. After making some adjustments for the hardware everything works. It's faster and smoother than current MacOS. It also looks better (after slight GUI tweaking). Granted, with Linux you will often have to do a bit of setup initially, but after that you don't need to touch the innards of the OS again if you don't want to. I don't think MacOS is a superior OS com…

Out of three daily desktop drivers, one is an XPS 13, one an old repurposed T3500 xeon, and one a Mac Pro 2011 tower. Arch runs faster and smoother on that Mac Pro than OS X.

I only really miss Adobe, but I was a heavy user of it. VMs/Wine aren't the same.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#149
post #34
post #7

> Linux can solve some pro needs, but not most. It’s a fantastic server OS but a miserable desktop one, and that will probably never change. Depending on which pro needs We're talking about, I don't believe this is true anymore. I was a Linux user for many years, then an OS X user for over a decade, and earlier this year I'd had enough with being annoyed by OS X & switched back to Linux. I am extremely happy I did. I…

> If you want beautiful GUIs or do video/audio/graphics editing then, yes, macOS is still superior. Adobe porting their Creative Suite to Linux and maybe even releasing their own branded AdobeOS Linux distribution would seem to be a massive existential threat to Apple and Microsoft both, and would give Adobe a possible "out" to the world they live in right now, where Apple tries to do their best to keep Adobe "in che…

>Adobe porting their Creative Suite to Linux and maybe even releasing their own branded AdobeOS Linux distribution would seem to be a massive existential threat to Apple and Microsoft both

And if my aunty had bollocks she'd be my uncle.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#150
post #74

"Linux can solve some pro needs, but not most. It’s a fantastic server OS but a miserable desktop one, and that will probably never change." When I switched in 2005 I had to convince friends I wasn't crazy. I advocated for the platform. I suffered weird incompatibilities. I dealt with bad updates. I found work arounds for non-multi-platform tools I had to run. But look how stable, how much less restrictive the platfo…

Virtually all of the rendering heavy lifting and many of the desktops in the world of cinematic VFX are Linux. Have been for years. Even Pixar has a Linux desktop fleet.

> Even Pixar has a Linux desktop fleet.

And those machines are terrible. Teradici thin clients streaming Red Hat from a closet somewhere. The latency on those things was significant, and the fonts unreadable. The hardware was really buggy, the monitors were really low resolution, and there was some irony on typing on a broken Dell keyboard in the Steve Jobs building. The crappyness of having to sit in front of those machines for 10 hours a day was a significant part of my decision when I left Pixar.

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