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A world without the Mac Pro

marco.org

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Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#121

Post by spo81rty »

mhenr18 wrote: post #116
spo81rty wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would most macOS users care about the Windows registry, Microsoft APIs, OS level PDF, or POSIX? Perhaps a programmer, but not an end user? Seems like I would take a super powerful Windows or linux server any day over a lower powered Mac Pro just because of the OS if hardware specs were that critical. Taking 10 vs 1 minute to render would be way more important. BTW, Windows 10 has multi desktop and most apps work…

You wouldn't be commenting on things working at high DPIs on Windows if you've been using a Mac for the past few years. It's really one of those things where a lot of Windows users think that it's fine, but once you see how well seamless and fully supported things are on OSX you realise just how much there is left to do. Every single app integrates well and the scaling is flawless even for the few that don't support…

I have seen that on Windows when dragging between monitors, but only if they are different resolutions. At work I use 3 monitors all 4k and they work flawlessly.

But yes some windows apps still leave a lot desired on 4k if they haven't been updated.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#122

Post by addicted »

mhenr18 wrote: post #88
cwyers wrote: post #2

> Microsoft is boldly experimenting with PC hardware, but Windows and everything around Windows is woefully inferior to macOS and the Mac software ecosystem. Even if Microsoft did everything right, it would take Windows at least a decade to catch up — and they won’t do everything right. So, if you have everything already on macOS (I still hate that name change), I can get not wanting to switch. But what on Earth is i…

* Free OS updates. * Better touchpad support throughout the entire OS. * Vastly superior HiDPI support (especially if you're using a multi-screen, multi-DPI setup). I cannot stress how poorly Windows 10 performs in this regard. This has been a solved problem on the Mac for years. * Better colour management through the whole UI stack. * Better tablet support (OSX has had integrated support for tablet events since 10.4…

* Windows has free OS updates

* Precision Touchpads are equally well supported in Windows.

* HiDPI is better on the Mac

* I don't know much about this.

* Are you referring to Wacom style tablets? Not sure about that, but if tablets in general, OSX tablets don't even exist, so it's irrelevant.

* Windows Audio APIs are as good as Core Audio now.

* This really isn't that big a deal. In Windows it leads to different benefits, where my mouse could be anywhere, ubt I could still scroll the page I was reading.

* Cortana is better than Spotlight now. I didn't know that Cortana would be completely disabled in countries that aren't supported. That sucks.

* Windows has had file tagging since Win 7.

There really isn't that much of a difference. There are places where Mac OS is better, and there are places where Windows is better.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#123

Post by sosborn »

redial wrote: post #26

The problem with this article is that Marco presents a rational argument for the need of a Mac Pro, but Apple is way past rationality in their view of the future; they are engaged in a holy war against local computing , against ports, wired connections, and against being tethered to a desk.

What is irrational about this?

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#124

Post by smitherfield »

geff82 wrote: post #11
hartator wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 10 has Linux subsystem now, which is Ubuntu 14.04. I would say it's at least on par now with MacOS.

Windows also has an annoyment-subsystem now, reminding you to use Edge once a day when you start Chrome. That is why I am switching my last desktop to Linux in the minutes I write this post. I will not accept an OS that tells me what I should use.

Of course Google also throws up annoy-popups every time you go to their site from a non-Chrome browser.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#125

Post by erokar »

Adaptive wrote: post #16

"Linux can solve some pro needs, but not most. It’s a fantastic server OS but a miserable desktop one, and that will probably never change." When I switched in 2005 I had to convince friends I wasn't crazy. I advocated for the platform. I suffered weird incompatibilities. I dealt with bad updates. I found work arounds for non-multi-platform tools I had to run. But look how stable, how much less restrictive the platfo…

I installed Ubuntu on my Macbook Air a couple of days ago. After making some adjustments for the hardware everything works. It's faster and smoother than current MacOS. It also looks better (after slight GUI tweaking).

Granted, with Linux you will often have to do a bit of setup initially, but after that you don't need to touch the innards of the OS again if you don't want to.

I don't think MacOS is a superior OS compared to Linux anymore. However, MacOS does have an ecosystem of some very good apps that do not have their equivalence in Linux. Hopefully that too will change.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#126

Post by geff82 »

smitherfield wrote: post #124
geff82 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows also has an annoyment-subsystem now, reminding you to use Edge once a day when you start Chrome. That is why I am switching my last desktop to Linux in the minutes I write this post. I will not accept an OS that tells me what I should use.

Of course Google also throws up annoy-popups every time you go to their site from a non-Chrome browser.

That is annoying, too. But it is not "in my system".

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#127

Post by geff82 »

aq3cn wrote: post #53
geff82 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows also has an annoyment-subsystem now, reminding you to use Edge once a day when you start Chrome. That is why I am switching my last desktop to Linux in the minutes I write this post. I will not accept an OS that tells me what I should use.

I am also a Windows 10 user but I have not been asked this way to use Edge or IE. Are you sure it happens even after setting your default browser to something X?

Can't tell you, Edge has been my default because it is ok, but I use Chrome sometimes.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#128

Post by TarpitCarnivore »

protomyth wrote: post #44
CJefferson wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Constantly changing APIs based on Microsofts internal politics vs. the very stable Cocoa Really? I can run Windows apps I bought 10 years ago easily, whereas many Mac apps seem to break with every OS update. It's also extremely hard to build apps for older versions of Mac OS X, as Apple hide the older versions of the SDK.

I think m_mueller's comment is more from a developer's perspective than a users. Microsoft has done an amazing job of preserving compatibility. Its not that Microsoft gets rid of APIs (they don't), but that they haven't stuck with a "one true" API to program Windows in[1]. Their switching of what tech you should use to build your apps is problematic. Cocoa has been a long path, but my Windows friends have had a const…

I suspect this will change under Nadella. Things just feel like they have a better vision to them.

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#129

Post by mhenr18 »

protomyth wrote: post #44
CJefferson wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Constantly changing APIs based on Microsofts internal politics vs. the very stable Cocoa Really? I can run Windows apps I bought 10 years ago easily, whereas many Mac apps seem to break with every OS update. It's also extremely hard to build apps for older versions of Mac OS X, as Apple hide the older versions of the SDK.

I think m_mueller's comment is more from a developer's perspective than a users. Microsoft has done an amazing job of preserving compatibility. Its not that Microsoft gets rid of APIs (they don't), but that they haven't stuck with a "one true" API to program Windows in[1]. Their switching of what tech you should use to build your apps is problematic. Cocoa has been a long path, but my Windows friends have had a const…

A key difference with the Microsoft approach vs the Apple approach is that on Windows the API that exposes every single feature is such a beast that developers are expected to work at a level above that API.

Whether it's WPF, WinForms, WinRT, or whatever the new flavour of the day is, it's always a layer on top. And that layer is never perfect, because you still have to do the occasional [DllImport("Kernel32.dll")] interop reference.

Here are the currently supported ways to deal with windows on Windows:

* HWND

* System.Windows.Window

* Windows.UI.Xaml.Window

On OSX, you use Cocoa. When Apple introduced Swift, they didn't have to layer on top of the API accessed by ObjC. When you write Swift code, you call the exact same APIs as you would have done with your ObjC code.

Here are the currently supported ways to deal with windows on the Mac:

* NSWindow

Re: A world without the Mac Pro

#130

Post by derefr »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #75
derefr wrote: post #54

> We can’t just buy hideous Xeon workstations from Dell and install macOS on them. Sure you can. Or rather, you can install the [free] VMWare ESXi hypervisor on said hideous box, and then install macOS on that . The ESXi hypervisor is an officially-supported macOS hardware configuration. Apple want you to only run macOS guests through ESXi if you're on macOS hardware, but there's literally nothing stopping you from d…

> The ESXi hypervisor is an officially-supported macOS hardware configuration. ON APPLE HARDWARE. If you run MacOS on non-Apple hardware it isn't officially supported at all, effectively piracy, and you need to hack ESXi to make it work at all (ESXi Unlocker, etc). > but there's literally nothing stopping you from doing otherwise. Except the license agreements (both Apple and VMWare), and the fact that ESXi won't do…

> If you run MacOS on non-Apple hardware it isn't officially supported at all

By "officially supported", what I mean is that Apple supports VMWare in developing drivers for ESXi, so neither new versions of ESXi, nor macOS updates, will suddenly break macOS ESXi guests. You can put the same expectations on the stability of the ESXi hypervisor in running Apple software as you can on Apple hardware in running Apple software. (This contrasts with the Hackintosh driver ecosystem, where every time macOS updates you have to figure your compatibility out all over again.)

Now, the other half of that—the stability of your hardware in running ESXi, etc.—is up to you. Obviously, you can't take your Dell into an Apple Store and expect support.

VMWare sort of does support you, though, insofar as it's the free-tier support (you can get better if you pay for VSphere), and insofar as whatever problem you're facing is a problem with ESXi—or a problem in your hardware's ESXi compatibility—instead of a problem in how ESXi handles macOS guests. But, as I said above, the latter is Apple's problem to worry about; such bugs get fixed, to support the people who are virtualizing macOS on Apple hardware.

> the fact that ESXi won't do it unless modified

Not actually true! ESXi won't create a macOS guest without hacks. It's perfectly happy, however, to import a macOS VM created using VMWare Fusion. There's even a quick menu-action to upload VMs directly from Fusion into ESXi.

> Except the license agreements (both Apple and VMWare)

A license agreement doesn't stop you from doing anything. It doesn't have hands to restrain you from typing the commands that will install macOS. You stop yourself, because of a license agreement. Or you don't. Up to you, really. It's not like either Apple or VMWare is going to stop selling you their products, let alone sue you, for what you do with their software on your own computer.

(Now, if you're an employee of a company, then the licence agreement might indeed have "hands" to stop you with: the hands of the lawyers of the company, enforcing the company's agreement with VMware/Apple. This is why https://macminicolo.net/ exists, instead of just being an ESXi farm.)

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