People giving their homes to Airbnb aren't hotels. They should be entitled to do whatever they want with it.
And what's this no picture thing? Pictures are really important and gut feelings are a great thing.
Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
141–150 of 403 posts
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#142On the flip side, do you really want to stay with a host who would otherwise be discriminatory towards you. I certainly wouldn't. It might be more interesting if you provided your discriminating characteristics and then you could publicly see a host's bias.
I'm black and I agree with you. I don't want bigots strong armed into accepting my money. Though I do understand how someone would feel slighted by race based discrimination and want to take action against it.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can think of one way AirBNB could attempt to persuade hosts: publish data showing that there is no correlation between any of [race, religion, national origin, disability, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, age] and the likelihood of a guest being a poor guest (ending in an insurance claim, or maybe just a very bad review). If the data shows that there is no correlation, they can prove hosts have no reason t…
The usual arguments against your point have been well argued before, but I will repeat it here, because people all too often trip up on the seeming unassailable logic of your position: Men are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes than women, and 100% of crime is committed by humans. Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? What if, statistically,…
> Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result?
Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a houseplant as you can to a human, it would seem wisest to board the houseplant at every opportunity.
> What if, statistically, there were some weird factor...
I would like an AI to make all my booking picks for me, but not one that aims to maximize diversity or exclusivity, simply one that minimizes risk. If it turned out the AI found a strong correlation with ear shape and risk, or favorite color and risk, that would be just fine, as long as it is correct.
I have no such AI, all I have are some mere heuristics gathered from the work of actuarial scientists (Insurers). So if a twenty-something male and a fifty-something female both request the same night, why wouldn't I choose the older female every single time?
(Note that I am discriminating against my very own demographic, not that my feelings play any part in this, I'm simply attempting to minimize risk when booking, when there's an option to do so.)
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty sure your new personal rule-of-thumb isn't discrimination.
The problem is that it is. Any such rule of thumb is discrimination. Even if you had some magical way of knowing whether given guest will destroy your apartment with perfect certainty, using that to filter guests will still be discrimination. Trying to eliminate discrimination always ends up by removing any kind of ability to choose your customer.
AirBNB lists several specific types of discrimination their policy forbids - discrimination against "locals" is not one of them.
https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1405/airbnb-s-nondiscrim...
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, I think the logic as you've laid it out makes sense to you and I won't argue it but I will explain how other people view what a "broker" or "broker service" actually is: The core value-added function of a (traditional) rental broker is the matching of renter and landlord. For the renter, brokers recommend which apartments in which neighborhoods are appropriate. For landlords, brokers pre-screen for appropriate re…
> This is why going after the "broker service" angle would be a weak approach in changing homeowners' minds about discrimination. I'm not suggesting it as a way to change homeowner's minds, which isn't even something I'm interested in doing [0]. I'm interested in enforcing the existing law prohibiting discrimination. If hosts wish to discriminate, I'd prefer they'd be limited to doing so only in the limited circumsta…
>I'm interested in enforcing the _existing law_ [...]
I understand but your opinion is predicated on your particular reading of the "brokering services"[0] law you cited previously. That extensive enumeration of brokers/agents/salesman/employee is a person that does the matching work on behalf of the client. If other reasonable people don't think Airbnb's "self-service" approach is brokering, then the word "existing" in "existing law" doesn't apply.
Likewise, if one downloads PDFs of legal forms from a website to sell a car or incorporate a business and fills out the form himeself, that website is not providing "attorney services" -- even though many lawyers might download the same PDF files and fill them out for their clients. (Self-service legal forms != attorney services)
Persuading homeowners to not discriminate by convincing them that Airbnb is a real brokering service seems like too big of a mental hurdle to overcome. (No lawyers are issuing dire warnings to homeowners saying Airbnb is a "brokering service". No court rulings have made the headlines saying Airbnb is a brokering service. Etc) Therefore, they see no "existing law" that applies to them.
[0](A) without the use in any manner of the sales or rental facilities or the sales or rental services of any real estate broker, agent, or salesman, or of such facilities or services of any person in the business of selling or renting dwellings, or of any employee or agent of any such broker, agent, salesman, or person and
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#146I've always considered it a legitimate request when people want to live with others of the same gender for a shared room in their home. For example, you especially see this on sites like Craigslist when people are seeking roommates. This policy seems to overturn the ability of hosts to do this. If I were a female in an all female home renting out one room, it would make me uncomfortable. Perhaps other do not see this…
Also, they're attacking whites only here. What if blacks wanted a black person. Or a Chinese person who only speaks Chinese and writes only in Mandarin wants the same. The left will give these people exceptions for "cutlural" reasons. They just want to regulate race and commerce on their unquestionable terms. This has nothing to do with equality. Its just a power-grab by political opportunists and misguided idealists…
I don't see any basis for what you are talking about anywhere in AirBNB's policy: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1405/airbnb-s-nondiscrim...
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hotels usually have the credit card number of the guest.
and insurance and the means and laws to go after the former guest
And don't forget scale. When I'm pushing thousands of people through my place in a year, I can plan for certain events and budget for them. An individual can be wiped out by a bad roll of the dice.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The only freedom the ideal of USA is supposed to grant you is freedom from too much government meddling. Really? Which amendment is that one? There are a few prominent restrictions on particular kinds of government meddling in the US. This by no means generalizes to the rest of it.
That's why I said 'ideal', it's not true in practice, but I was responding to the comment about the hypothetical "point of the US".
What I meant by that was individual liberty and the ability to make your own choices and decisions.
Government meddling in that in this case is forcing people to do something they are uncomfortable with simply because they paid money while simultaneously running the risk of legal action if at any point you want to abort the transaction.
The most basic example is akin to forcing somebody to sign a contract without knowing who they are signing it with.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you scroll up, you'll see Frondo asserting that "It [discrimination] didn't hurt businesses in the American south enough to compel them to stop discriminating." Frondo is attempting to argue that market forces don't punish people (much) for discrimination. I'm simply pointing out that market forces weren't even allowed. People discriminated because the law said things like this: "No colored barber shall serve as a…
Only one (the first) of the four quotes you've chosen restrict market forces in the way you are envisioning, i.e. white workers don't want black competition. I'd be interested in what the next sentence was, and wouldn't be surprised if it was "no white barber shall serve as a barber to colored women". (Aside: it seems like lots of these snippets are floating around the internet with little by way of attribution.) The…
The first of the four quotes describes a market restriction on employment. The other three describe market restrictions demanding discrimination for customers.
Similarly, market forces may not be strong enough to encourage Airbnb hosts to serve all potential customers equally.
That may be true, but citing legally required discrimination as evidence in favor of that proposition is silly. No one claims market forces can fix bad politics.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only one (the first) of the four quotes you've chosen restrict market forces in the way you are envisioning, i.e. white workers don't want black competition. I'd be interested in what the next sentence was, and wouldn't be surprised if it was "no white barber shall serve as a barber to colored women". (Aside: it seems like lots of these snippets are floating around the internet with little by way of attribution.) The…
The first of the four quotes describes a market restriction on employment. The other three describe market restrictions demanding discrimination for customers. Similarly, market forces may not be strong enough to encourage Airbnb hosts to serve all potential customers equally. That may be true, but citing legally required discrimination as evidence in favor of that proposition is silly. No one claims market forces ca…
If we can't agree that the last three refer to "separation" (de facto discrimination) and not de jure discrimination, I think we will only continue to argue past one another.