Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

greatergood.berkeley.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 160 posts

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#141

Post by Evgeny »

avindroth wrote: post #41
TenOhms wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take someone being completely honest with me 100% of time over someone who thinks one thing of me and tells me something else. The thing is, people act based on their beliefs the vast majority of the time. So to borrow your example, say the friend doesn't complain about his buddy playing Overwatch all the time. Do you think that he'll just wait around to see if he'll stop playing or do you think he'll start to ig…

There are roughly three stages in extra-personal development. 1. The Selfish : You tell people what they want to hear. 2. The Truthsayer : You tell people what they need to hear. 3. The Altruistic : You tell people what they need to hear when they are ready. I am assuming John cares about Jack. If he still ignores Jack, then John is part of the Selfish. He is misled by just short-term benefits. The Selfish and the Al…

There are roughly three stages in extra-personal development.

I'm interested to learn some more. Is it your personal classification or do you base it on some research, literature etc.? Could you recommend something to read on a subject of extra-personal development?

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#142

Post by belorn »

Mz wrote: post #134
kross wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, I think it is a human tendency because it is often the path of least resistance (short term, but long term can accumulate and be not worth the alternative). So while culturally it might have higher numbers in women, the numbers in men are high enough to sell books like "No More Mr. Nice Guy.". Good book by the way.

So you agree it impacts women more but deny that it is a gendered issue. Gotcha.

You stated that the negative effect is higher for a woman than a man, thus claiming it to be a gender issue.

kross comment stated that the negative effect is the exact same for a woman or a man, thus disagreeing with your statement. It also states that the amount of women being "pleasers" are higher for cultural reasons.

You could claim that the culture that causes more women to be "pleasers" is an gender issue, in which you two might be in an agreement on that point if you two are also in an agreement on the definition of gender issues.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#143

Post by aws_ls »

w1ntermute wrote: post #10
divbit wrote: post #2

> Live with total integrity. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Words to live by

Not at all. If you don't understand how to employ false smiles as needed, you won't get very far in life. This was one of the biggest mistakes I made when I was young. Once I learned how to stop being totally honest and how to be friendly to even those I didn't like, a lot of opportunities opened up that I would have never been exposed to otherwise. Simple example: I maintain friendships with people I don't genuinely…

Let me guess, GP is a 20 something person and you are at least around 40 (pardon me if you are not, your maturity level surely is).

I think, its a spectrum between extreme honesty and extreme dishonesty, and when very young extreme honesty has an appeal. But of course it's not healthy, just like any extreme.

Like you, I am totally for pragmatism, but still can't maintain contacts with people whom I don't like, even if they can help me with other useful contacts etc. Because, I feel, its possible to attain the same level of success, by taking a higher road.

There is beauty in preserving intellectual vanity. I know you didn't imply that, but total pragmatism, seems soulless to me. For example, in an earlier corporate life, I knew some people who were the "manager" sort and very aggressive, which yielded them dividends. When they entered the Startup world, sometime after I did, they tried to maintain the similar (aggressive) equation in the communication. I humored them with one meeting, which didn't go so well, from my perspective. I felt, that in my easy speaking manner, I'd given a lot of gyan to them, but still came out of the meeting taking away some vacuous corporate BS kind of gyan. Since I was left with a bad taste, after the meeting, I declined all further meeting requests simply because I could. Felt happy.

So life is a very complex experience and there never are any fixed rules. Some times you fake it till you make it. Other times you are brutally honest. Yes, but integrity, is a must have quality at all times. That's the only non-negotiable IMHO.

Edit: gyan means knowledge & minor typos

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#144

Post by Evgeny »

avindroth wrote: post #122
hosh wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your contrived example, it's missing some things. For John to be authentic, then he would need to first suss out why he feels so bothered by seeing John being addicted to playing Overwatch. Meaning, there is something that John is unaware of his own psyche that lead to feeling irritated by Jack's addiction. Being unaware of that means he might be _seen_ as transparent or authentic or honest -- you certainly did --…

First off, rapport isn't just from neuro-linguistic programming. (Funny you mention it, I was just reading an NLP book couple days ago.) And also to the HN crowd, you should specify NLP; most will think Natural Language Processing and be confused. I agree with you on all of your points. With a feeling, you should figure out what caused it, and then figure out what caused that, and then recurse backwards until you act…

Jerry Talley who taught intimacy at Stanford some time ago has a great lecture on this

Do you know if it is available online?

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#145

Post by teddyh »

red_blobs wrote: post #94

Our friend group has a 'people pleaser' and it's fine, most of the time. However, it has become a nightmare (and nearly destroyed our group) because when there is a person that needs to be kicked out of our group for lying/being manipulating/terrible behavior, this person defends them to the end and treats us like the bad guy. Passive aggression also accompanies 'people pleaser', because the person generally doesn't…

That’s Geek Social Fallacy #1: Ostracizers Are Evil: http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#146

Post by Asooka »

avindroth wrote: post #34
benatkin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author defines people pleasing: > People pleasing, in my extensive personal experience, is a process of guessing what other people want, or what will make them think favorably of us, and then acting accordingly. People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite.

Okay. Let's take an example from the article. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Let's say John is this guy who is "transparent, honest, and authentic, and never waivering." And say Jack, John's friend, is addicted to playing Overwatch. John comes by and says, "Jack, you shouldn't play Overwatch. You are…

You know, this is going on a tangent, but I'd like to interject for a moment here.

If you're in a similar situation, i.e. have someone who is showing signs of addiction and skips doing important stuff, DO NOT approach by attacking the thing they're addicted to. If you do, you're invoking tribal instincts and placing yourself in the enemy tribe. You're placing yourself as an adversary to whatever it is that the other person enjoys, which is a surefire way to have them oppose you out of nothing more than trying to preserve their identity and quality of life.

Instead, try to get them to see the positives of doing what you ask for. Show the other person that you accept their hobby. If it's pure addiction or escapism, i.e. a way to deal with emotional or psychological problems, try to attack the root cause.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#147

Post by CPLX »

avindroth wrote: post #126
CPLX wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck with that. Speaking only for myself, but finally teaching myself how to avoid that kind of messianic thinking has been a considerable benefit to me in my old age.

I am so sorry. Maybe when I grow older (I am just 21), I will become more "realistic" and altruism will not make me happy. This is a sad possibility. But I have met quite a few people much, much older than I am (40-70 years old) who are happy changing the world for the better. You only live once, why not set the bar high? That is how they approach the world. Having that sort of "mission" (because it really is a missi…

> I am just 21

Ah yes, quite. Carry on then.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#148

Post by hosh »

avindroth wrote: post #111
hosh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. Why do you feel contempt for passive-aggressiveness rooted in low-self esteem? Do you feel you are superior to people who do that? Do you feel that those people are weak of character or resolve?

It's detailed further in No More Mr. Nice Guy , but I will explain it. I specifically hate those who give to get. And when they give and don't get, they become passive-aggressive. If I have low self-esteem, here is how I might behave. For the purposes of this example, I am Jack and the other person is Elizabeth. 1. I want care and attention from Elizabeth. 2. I give care and attention to her, hoping I will get them b…

That to me is a lack of self awareness and integrity. Not everyone is fully conscious of the things that drive them. That you feel hatred for such behavior suggests that you too have things about yourself that you are not aware of.

Being nice is not the same as compassion. I'm glad you found a book that helped you understand it.

However, based on this and your other comments on this thread, I think there is more to discover about this. There is a whole range of things related to love (and I don't mean romance) I think is missing from your discourse.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#150

Post by hosh »

avindroth wrote: post #122
hosh wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your contrived example, it's missing some things. For John to be authentic, then he would need to first suss out why he feels so bothered by seeing John being addicted to playing Overwatch. Meaning, there is something that John is unaware of his own psyche that lead to feeling irritated by Jack's addiction. Being unaware of that means he might be _seen_ as transparent or authentic or honest -- you certainly did --…

First off, rapport isn't just from neuro-linguistic programming. (Funny you mention it, I was just reading an NLP book couple days ago.) And also to the HN crowd, you should specify NLP; most will think Natural Language Processing and be confused. I agree with you on all of your points. With a feeling, you should figure out what caused it, and then figure out what caused that, and then recurse backwards until you act…

I wasn't talking to the HN crowd. I was talking to you. I'm well aware that rapport is not just from NLP. But thanks for clarifying for everyone else.

Your point on people-pleasing: that if they are too self-absorbed to form rapport, then they are not really people pleasing. In my experience talking and interacting with people, that is exactly it: folks will see themselves as pleasing others, but in reality, they are not actually doing so, because they are not doing so in integrity. That is the read I on "people pleasers", and that is the read I get from that article. For me, if someone is pleasing others and they are doing so in integrity, I don't see the issue with that. In general, that that rarely happens.

As for the recursion, that is the basic path but it isn't as simple as that. For one thing, fhe intellect alone is inadequate for the task. This was why I was talking about awareness, not intellect. When there are deeper rooted issues, the emotional attachment might even hijack the intellect to come up with rational explanations on why the deeper issues should not be explored.

My exploration of this comes from the meditation / shamanic / psychonaut approaches, and not clinical psychology. Where you can go if you dig impeccably and with an open mind will go to some really strange places. I'd love to see or talk with someone to see if the implications from those strange places changes or inflects effective altruism and infinite ethics.

Post reply on HN