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Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

greatergood.berkeley.edu

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Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#81

Post by kross »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #58

I'll say this - a life lived in service to other people feels more worthwhile to me. Perhaps one of the services is being honest, even brusque at points. Just not very often. Actually solving problems for other people is mostly about framing the question underlying the problem. If they're not interested, then you're done with that problem. "Service to other people" is not some grand/altruistic thing; it's simply a pr…

I would pose that "service to others" if reflected upon, is exactly ego. You can feel good being of service to others, and you can feel diminished by not being of service to others. When you lose the good feeling, you want to do more, to reobtain that good feeling.

"I am one who strives to live in service to others" (I am parahrasing) but if this is true, it is more clearly ego a.k.a. identification with form.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#82

Post by freshflowers »

avindroth wrote: post #11

Pleasing people most definitely pays. That is how the world works; you give people what they want, and you get paid. Supply and demand. Preachers of self-reliance seem to confuse "not letting other people affect you" and "not caring about other people". Self-reliance and people-pleasing are two separate axes on a Cartesian plane. You can be both self-reliant and people-pleasing. Being self-reliant, but not people-ple…

Ah, the fine art of rationalization...

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#83

Post by kross »

avindroth wrote: post #26
runeks wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't understand how to employ false smiles as needed, you won't get very far in life. How do we measure how far we've come in life? Relative to what is this distance measured?

This question is only asked by those who cannot measure how far they have come. We all have our subjective distances. But if you are a human being, some combinations of the following will be that distance: 1. Sustenance (food, water, housing, money) 2. Community (belonging, love) 3, Self-expression 4. Self-transcendence (altruism) This is a gross simplification of Maslow, but give me some slack. If you question every…

I appreciate your reference to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Assuming you have met safety/security (#1), general philosophy of living presently would ask "why measure at all?"

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#84

Post by pipio21 »

avindroth wrote: post #34
benatkin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author defines people pleasing: > People pleasing, in my extensive personal experience, is a process of guessing what other people want, or what will make them think favorably of us, and then acting accordingly. People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite.

Okay. Let's take an example from the article. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Let's say John is this guy who is "transparent, honest, and authentic, and never waivering." And say Jack, John's friend, is addicted to playing Overwatch. John comes by and says, "Jack, you shouldn't play Overwatch. You are…

"John comes back a week later and says, "Jack, I am really fucking frustrated you are still playing that shitty game. I want you to quit right this fucking moment.""

That is exactly what some people do in real life professionally in phycology, without the strong words(that denote lack of control). It works really well.

In order to illustrate this think on "Kitcken nightmares" tv program, or something like "Hermano mayor" on Spanish TV.

I use to do the same thing with friends and people that demand my help. Loner? Quite the contrary, help someone get out of a hole and he-she will be your friend forever.

I have taken people out of drugs, or gangs,prostitution this people will give their life for me. There are few things as rewarding in life(it is also a pain in the ass while you do follow the process but it is worth it).

Of course you need education in order to do that. You don't need to say you are "fucking frustrated", in fact if you are frustrated you can't help anyone.

There are masters at this, like in anything,and if you do that you will learn with every person you help. After some people you see patterns and being effective becomes easier.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#85

Post by kross »

reedlaw wrote: post #66

I can think of a few problems with this philosophy right off the bat. It doesn't give us much incentive to act politely. Also the first point reminds me of Sense and Sensibility when Marianne doesn't want to share her sadness with Mrs. Jennings not because she's a people pleaser but because Mrs. Jennings is not tender or sympathetic--all she wants is a supply of gossip.

Honesty is not exclusive of gentleness and kindness.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#86

Post by hinkley »

tremon wrote: post #70
hinkley wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Jack, I am really fucking frustrated you are still playing that shitty game." That is not being authentic, and that's the problem. In our heads we know what we want, but we ask for something else. Why do you want your friend to get off the computer. To be off the computer? No. You miss your friend and you want him to hang out with you. You are worried that he is missing out on life by living in the game and you're…

Moreover, by phrasing it like that ("I'm getting frustrated"), you are imposing your demands on your friend without even informing about their state of mind. Not acknowledging them is not the way to keep friends close.

Yes, and what's worse is that the reason you're upset is not even that you miss your friend, but fear that your friend has decided that a game is more important than you are, and so you are demanding that he prove that he isn't rejecting you by making a gesture.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#87

Post by JoeAltmaier »

kross wrote: post #85
reedlaw wrote: post #66

I can think of a few problems with this philosophy right off the bat. It doesn't give us much incentive to act politely. Also the first point reminds me of Sense and Sensibility when Marianne doesn't want to share her sadness with Mrs. Jennings not because she's a people pleaser but because Mrs. Jennings is not tender or sympathetic--all she wants is a supply of gossip.

Honesty is not exclusive of gentleness and kindness.

There's an old saying: be kind so you can be truthful; be gentle so you can be honest

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#88

Post by morgante »

pipio21 wrote: post #84
avindroth wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. Let's take an example from the article. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Let's say John is this guy who is "transparent, honest, and authentic, and never waivering." And say Jack, John's friend, is addicted to playing Overwatch. John comes by and says, "Jack, you shouldn't play Overwatch. You are…

"John comes back a week later and says, "Jack, I am really fucking frustrated you are still playing that shitty game. I want you to quit right this fucking moment."" That is exactly what some people do in real life professionally in phycology, without the strong words(that denote lack of control). It works really well. In order to illustrate this think on "Kitcken nightmares" tv program, or something like "Hermano ma…

> That is exactly what some people do in real life professionally in phycology,

I didn't know that algae responded so well to honesty.

Assuming that you meant psychology, there's a huge difference between hearing something from a professional psychologist and from a friend. It's a whole different relationship, with different words. If a friend treated me like a patient, they'd stop being a friend.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#89

Post by hosh »

avindroth wrote: post #11

Pleasing people most definitely pays. That is how the world works; you give people what they want, and you get paid. Supply and demand. Preachers of self-reliance seem to confuse "not letting other people affect you" and "not caring about other people". Self-reliance and people-pleasing are two separate axes on a Cartesian plane. You can be both self-reliant and people-pleasing. Being self-reliant, but not people-ple…

"Pleasing people most definitely pays. That is how the world works; you give people what they want, and you get paid. Supply and demand." "Talking about truth and white lie as a dichotomy is childish. They are tools in a toolbox. If you feel guilty because you lied, then you are a slave to the principle of honesty." Integrity is wholeness of being, and it includes all of a person. It includes both the parts that will lie, cheat and steal as well as the part that wants to be honest and upfront. Integrity requires awareness and mindfulness.

What you're describing in your comment is on the psychopathy spectrum, which in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. However, this is not the end-all, be-all of human consciousness, and there is a lot more room to grow from there.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#90

Post by hosh »

avindroth wrote: post #34
benatkin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author defines people pleasing: > People pleasing, in my extensive personal experience, is a process of guessing what other people want, or what will make them think favorably of us, and then acting accordingly. People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite.

Okay. Let's take an example from the article. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Let's say John is this guy who is "transparent, honest, and authentic, and never waivering." And say Jack, John's friend, is addicted to playing Overwatch. John comes by and says, "Jack, you shouldn't play Overwatch. You are…

In your contrived example, it's missing some things.

For John to be authentic, then he would need to first suss out why he feels so bothered by seeing John being addicted to playing Overwatch.

Meaning, there is something that John is unaware of his own psyche that lead to feeling irritated by Jack's addiction. Being unaware of that means he might be _seen_ as transparent or authentic or honest -- you certainly did -- but he's not actually in integrity.

Also, what you described with Steve is called rapport in NLP, or ethos in rhetorics. It's not people-pleasing, so much as matching impedance and getting inside someone else's space. People-pleasers tend to be too self-absorbed to be able to fully enter someone else's mindspace and establish rapport. Unless that person is on the psychopathy spectrum.

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