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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#141

Post by mseebach »

rwmj wrote: post #18
jackgavigan wrote: post #7

Unfortunately, like other countries, the UK's Border Force[1] clearly has an above-average share of incompetents and bullies. If you give such people any power whatsoever, they will abuse it. Sadly, that's what happened here. The real problem is that there is no accountability in these organisations. Even if a complaint by Rachel triggered an investigation, the culture in organisations like this is to protect their o…

I'm never sure if Theresa May is evil or incompetent. It may be she is just incapable of controlling her department, although perhaps I'm being too charitable.

I recall having read that the Home Office has a uniquely corrupting effect on its ministers. Also, it's not like the border was a gentle stroll through pleasant parkland prior to 2010. In fact, it was pretty much the same.

In general, it's not really practical to vilify individuals over policies and the actions of the bureaucracy -- that's different from not holding them responsible for things they're responsible for, but it's too easy to forget that Snooper's Charter was voted out of committee 444 to 69 a few days ago. They're all rotten.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#142

Post by olalonde »

> The handlers, they talk like you aren’t listening.

Experienced this at US border a few months ago. Officers repeatedly referred to my wife and another man's wife (both Chinese) as "bitches". After flying 12 hours from Hong Kong and not wanting to be put back on a plane, the best you can do is shut up and play their games until they let you through.

I was also told by the officer that I was stupid for having shown my visa and "nobody does that" (I'm a Canadian who works in the US, I was under the impression I had to show it each time I re-entered... still confused about what he meant).

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#143

Post by stupidcar »

mpeg wrote: post #45
jbob2000 wrote: post #16

This was her mistake: "..where a young man somberly asked me what brought me to the UK. “I’m giving a talk at a conference then traveling to see a bit of England. I have a letter of invitation,” I replied, confidently handing over the requested documents." Just say "A short vacation", whether it is or not. Don't give the agent any more information than they need. Throughout her entire encounter with the agents, she w…

It's not about lying, it's about giving only the information requested. "I'm attending a conference" would have been ok too, or even "I'm travelling for business" - I've used both in the US without the border agent asking any more questions. When you volunteer a lot of information you come across as nervous, and sketchy

Sorry, but this is just victim blaming.

Innocent people should not have to avoid being truthful or complete in their answers just to avoid arousing "suspicion". Innocent people should not have to know ahead-of-time that giving honest and complete answers to an official will lead to this kind of treatment. This kind of treatment should not be acceptable under any circumstances for people who are actually innocent and/or have not done anything that would cause suspicion in a reasonable person. Giving complete answers is not reasonable grounds for suspicion.

What you're saying may be good advice in practical terms, but implying it's a sensible default is basically surrendering to an insane, broken system.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#144

Post by no1youknowz »

I remember when I came to the US 3 years ago.

I had a return ticket. I had sufficient funds to pay for a hotel, food, travel around the city. I had medical insurance. I was self employed.

The problem I had? When I told the border patrol inspector who was asking me questions, that my stay was 3 months vacation. His reaction was like... NO WAY, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

This was in New Jersey. I was brought to the back, answered all the questions. They took my phone and went through it. When the other border guard came back, he said there were "inconsistencies" with my story. I just said "Oh ok" and held firm.

He called the contact I had even him and I think what helped, was the woman who answered. Bitched at him for 5 minutes straight, she was at the airport. I was staying with her until I got a hotel and she was demanding to know "as a tax payer". Why I was there, when I was visiting her and I was a tourist.

They let me through.

After the 3 months, I returned back to the UK for 2 weeks. I then went back to the US. This time, I had learnt my lesson and went via New York. The border patrol officer this time didn't even look at me. I presume he saw my previous flight information and that AGAIN, I was staying for 3 months.

He stamped my passport and "off you go".

I've travelled all over the world. Wherever I go and for whatever duration. I am a tourist. End of story.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#145

Post by zero_iq »

Johnny555 wrote: post #99
DanBC wrote: post #84

I'm sorry she had a terrible experience. But the visa requirements are pretty clear, and she needed a standard visa. Here's the "do you need a visa" website. https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa Walk through it. She's from the USA. She's travelling for work, academic or business. She's planning to stay less than six months. Here's the result: https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/work/six_months_or_le... You don't need…

She's an animation artist giving a talk about an web animation API, doesn't that fall under If you’re invited as an expert ...take part in arts, entertainment or sporting activities ?

No. Permitted paid engagements are:

"An expert may give lectures in their subject area, if they have been invited by a UK Higher Education Institution; or a UK based research or arts organisation provided this does not amount to filling a teaching position for the host organisation."

"A professional artist, entertainer, musician or sports person may carry out an activity directly relating to their profession, if they have been invited by a creative (arts or entertainment) or sports organisation, agent or broadcaster based in the UK."

She doesn't qualify for either. The former because she wasn't invited by any UK institution, nor a Higher Education, Research, or Arts organisation. The latter because she is not a professional artist or entertainer, nor invited by arts or entertainment organisation, agent, or broadcaster based in the UK.

I have to say, the rules are fairly straightforward. I followed the application process online as if I was her, and it's really quite obvious that she'd need to apply for a visa. It tells you to check the list of what you're allowed to be paid for, and what I quoted above is what it says.

Her blog post can be summed up as:

1. Was refused entry to UK because I didn't have the right docs. Will make damn sure I have the right documentation next time!

2. Go back. Oh shoot, I didn't have the right docs this time either.

3. British border control doesn't treat you too nicely when you show up again without the proper visa. Poor me.

4. Well then, I'm never going back. huff

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#146

Post by Bromskloss »

2skep wrote: post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

Now that we're telling stories:

I was flying home from England to Sweden and going through the inspection before departure. The guy checking me could tell that I was upset about it all, having to remove my belt and maybe even my shoes. When we were done, he had the greatest line: "Thank you for your cooperation, from Mr. Obama."

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#147

Post by PaulHoule »

tatobug wrote: post #81
PaulHoule wrote: post #35

England has probably the toughest border to cross of any country I have been to.

I just went to Europe recently (for leisure), landed twice at LHR from US and Germany with no issues whatsoever. The border folks were very friendly.

They were nice to me, but I saw them drag some blacks off a bus in France pretty forcibly.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#149

Post by germanier »

stupidcar wrote: post #143
mpeg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about lying, it's about giving only the information requested. "I'm attending a conference" would have been ok too, or even "I'm travelling for business" - I've used both in the US without the border agent asking any more questions. When you volunteer a lot of information you come across as nervous, and sketchy

Sorry, but this is just victim blaming. Innocent people should not have to avoid being truthful or complete in their answers just to avoid arousing "suspicion". Innocent people should not have to know ahead-of-time that giving honest and complete answers to an official will lead to this kind of treatment. This kind of treatment should not be acceptable under any circumstances for people who are actually innocent and/…

I'm not justifying what happened here and certainly the treatment she got was excessive. However, the reason that she had for entering the UK did require a visa that she had to obtain before traveling. The fact that she would have gotten admitted into the country if she would have given vague or wrong answers to the questions doesn't mean she is actually "innocent". Immigration officers are trained to pick up on people violating the law and she certainly was. This kind of treatment is not something you would get if you weren't.
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