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Amphetamine use in America's workforce

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Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#141

Post by girvo »

Vraxx wrote: post #81
ta_339393 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true, I have ADHD and I still feel stimulated when I take my medicine just like anyone else would. The difference is that it also gives me symptom relief as well. Over time you will develop more of a tolerance to these stimulating effects, at least to a degree, but the therapeutic benefits will continue for as long as you take them.

And therein lies the problem with making generalizations from single data points. Supposedly I have ADHD as well (I'm diagnosed such at least), and I generally become more mellow after taking adderall. I think the moral of this further anecdote is that generalizations should not be made on either of our experiences. Add into that the confounding factors of human bodies not being identical and having differing reactio…

Even more anecdotally, back when I was young and took amphetamines, it would mellow me out despite not having ADHD. Taking opiates would stimulate me. Bodies and minds are quirky.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#142

Post by tetrahydro »

nibs wrote: post #17
eridius wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's that, and also the fact that the type of work most of us do these days is pretty different than the type of work we did in times past, and the type of work we do now, especially knowledge work, seems to be more affected by ADHD than menial work.

Great point. I have found that doing simple routine tasks to be pretty rewarding dopamine wise. The way crossing things off a to-do list feels like accomplishment.

I agree with your points. I think that the environment plays a role in gene expression, no doubt the environment we live in today is much faster paced than it was as an agricultural society.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#143

Post by coredog64 »

yarou wrote: post #44
huac wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT: wouldn't recommend melatonin for constant use. more useful in setting a fixed bedtime; taking it too often may cause issues falling asleep.

Anecdotally, I can attest to this. I took melatonin for 3 days straight and my circadian dysregulation crept up again on the 4th. I've found that simple sleep hygiene habits (no blue light exposure 30 mins before, taking a shower, etc) facilitates better sleep than melatonin.

I use melatonin to recover from jet lag. It's not to _get_ to sleep, it's to stay asleep when my body normally thinks it should be getting up.

If you can find one, I'd recommend* an S+ by ResMed. It uses radar to track your sleep and can discern what phase of sleep you're in. It tracks how long it takes you to go to sleep and can offer specific hints to address issues you might be having. The app hasn't been kept up to date, but if you've got an older iOS 8.x device you're not going to upgrade that would pair well with it.

*Disclaimer: I worked at ResMed on the S+. I no longer work at ResMed but I still like my S+.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#144

Post by morgante »

Vraxx wrote: post #9

I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly common—Wall Street traders, software engineers, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, all cracked out of their minds trying to keep up with the competition." Yes, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and yes I have an Adderall prescription. But I'd hardly call myself…

Indeed. It also doesn't provide any evidence to support the notion that workforce usage is "distressingly common."

This is hardly any less sensationalist than the 1914 NYT article they mock.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#145

Post by rhizome »

forgetsusername wrote: post #122
ta_339393 wrote: post #54

As one who takes methamphetamine (generic Desoxyn) for ADHD, I can't help but take issue with the sensationalism in this article. If someone takes the same low dose I do but doesn't actually have ADHD, how could they be considered "cracked out?" simply because they are faking a diagnosis? We know that low-dose amphetamines improve cognition in healthy individuals regardless of whether or not you have ADHD. We also kn…

> but if someone without ADHD uses them in the same manor, then it's dangerous. While people on both sides of the argument are guzzling coffee and tea.

Anecdata: Once I started ADHD treatment I went from drinking 5-6+ pints of builder's tea[1] one after another into the afternoon, to one, maybe two, in the morning.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Builder's_tea

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#146

Post by leshow »

andyjdavis wrote: post #123
jolux wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of antidepressants are nowhere near as abusable as amphetamine and its salts are. SSRIs, for example, take weeks to have an effect. I take Remeron (mirtazapine) and it was nearly a month before I started to feel better. Amphetamines work much faster.

>SSRIs, for example, take weeks to have an effect. I am not sure that the time it takes to have an effect is a good metric for whether or not something has potential for abuse. Sure SSRIs take a few weeks to have a noticeably effect but they also takes weeks to tail off. The area under the curve is not necessarily different.

the speed at which they take effect is actually one of the most important things about addiction, that they make you feel better instantly. future positive outcomes are traded for instant rewards and negative future outcomes.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#147

Post by api_or_ipa »

I think this quote sums up the article's heavy handed, decidedly outdated view on mental health.

> ADHD drug abuse had become so commonplace on college campuses that Wesleyan University, among other prominent institutions, has tried to ban it altogether.

ADHD is a diagnosed medical disorder that affects millions of people in America. Why do we still stigmatize it in the modern age?

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#148

Post by yarou »

llamataboot wrote: post #63
yarou wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take an excess of any chemical substance, there will be consequences. Barring an underlying latent condition, amphetamine use at therapeutic levels causes cognitive improvement in the general population with minimal risks.

You must know different people than I do if everyone you know taking amphetamines is always taking them at low-levels ;)

I know people of all kinds. People that have blown out their kidneys and livers from drinking excessively until they vomited blood. I also know people that responsibly enjoy maybe one or two glasses of wine daily and have no real health issues.

It really depends on the individual, but amphetamines are no more dangerous than legal drugs. Why is ephedrine easily available OTC but not levo/dextroamphetamine?

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#149

Post by taxicabjesus »

api_or_ipa wrote: post #147

I think this quote sums up the article's heavy handed, decidedly outdated view on mental health. > ADHD drug abuse had become so commonplace on college campuses that Wesleyan University, among other prominent institutions, has tried to ban it altogether. ADHD is a diagnosed medical disorder that affects millions of people in America. Why do we still stigmatize it in the modern age?

> ADHD is a diagnosed medical disorder that affects millions of people in America. Why do we still stigmatize it in the modern age?

ADHD is a meaningless psychiatric diagnostic [1] of symptoms, not cause. The diagnosis is used to put millions of people in America on maintenance doses of addictive psychotropic drugs. Routine use of amphetamines almost always causes people's mental conditions to worsen, eventually.

Tonight one of my regular taxi passengers txt-messaged to ask if I was working. I was exhausted one night, when he was going home from the gay strip club, so I stopped at the coffee shop that was half-way between the strip club and his mother's house. I was like, "so... what's your story?"

When the passenger was in high school, he was diagnosed with ADHD. The doctor got him addicted to Ritalin, or one of the other legal prescription amphetamines. At first the amphetamine was great, but then side effects developed. Then he developed some legal troubles, which led to living in a halfway house, with hostile housemates...

Anyways... He's a bit of a mess... probably early or mid-30's... his mother pays his taxi fares. He had a job at the baseball stadium, but then he got fired. Last I saw him, he was collecting unemployment insurance.

People... people are interesting. This passenger didn't use "ridesharing" because he can't manage his money well enough, iirc.

[1] https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-doctor-isnt-... and https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/how-psychiatry-l...

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#150

Post by [deleted] »

kernelbandwidth wrote: post #91
dcosson wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another bit of sensationalism I noticed, the article mentions people have died after mixing adhd meds and alcohol. But the link was to an article about a person who died after mixing adhd meds, narcotic painkillers, and alcohol. It's well-documented that mixing narcotic painkillers & alcohol on its own is very dangerous. There may also be dangers of mixing adderall and alcohol, but it does everyone a disservice to ca…

Agreed. There's a recurring theme with drugs that mixing X and alcohol is dangerous. Don't get me wrong, I like good wine, craft beer, and liquor. But the common link is generally the "and alcohol" part. It seems pretty clear alcohol is a remarkably dangerous drug, just normalized by social use.

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