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Amphetamine use in America's workforce

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Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#51

Post by eridius »

ta_339393 wrote: post #42
eridius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with ADHD react to amphetamines differently than people without it (at the correct dosages at least; I've never read anything about what happens to people with ADHD that take more than the correct dosage).

This is false and a common myth. If this was true then we would have the perfect test for ADHD, just give someone some stimulants and see how they react.

Speaking as someone who's wrestled with ADHD all my life, as has my spouse, this is definitely not false. And your claimed test makes no sense; if you haven't exhibited symptoms of ADHD, how can those symptoms be erased?

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#52

Post by dcosson »

Vraxx wrote: post #9

I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly common—Wall Street traders, software engineers, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, all cracked out of their minds trying to keep up with the competition." Yes, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and yes I have an Adderall prescription. But I'd hardly call myself…

Another bit of sensationalism I noticed, the article mentions people have died after mixing adhd meds and alcohol. But the link was to an article about a person who died after mixing adhd meds, narcotic painkillers, and alcohol. It's well-documented that mixing narcotic painkillers & alcohol on its own is very dangerous.

There may also be dangers of mixing adderall and alcohol, but it does everyone a disservice to casually reference such a different situation.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#53

Post by 6stringmerc »

fixermark wrote: post #30

I can't help but ask myself whether we should be wondering why Americans can't make it without drug-modified behavior, or whether this is better or worse than alternatives such as cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine, etc. Humans in societies have been chemically altering their moods since we discovered mood-altering chemicals. Stress occurs inside and outside civilized workforces, and people take measures to mitigate stres…

Personally, I think the root of society's issues with drugs is rooted in moral judgment. It's our nature to be compelled to engage in certain activities (reproduction, sleep, obtain food) yet collectively rules and standards have been created to select which ones are okay, casually speaking.

It's not so much as "why can't Americans go without" as much as it is a "why can't Americans admit Prohibition doesn't work" type of question to me. The latter is a lot easier to fix than the former, I think.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#54

Post by ta_339393 »

As one who takes methamphetamine (generic Desoxyn) for ADHD, I can't help but take issue with the sensationalism in this article.

If someone takes the same low dose I do but doesn't actually have ADHD, how could they be considered "cracked out?" simply because they are faking a diagnosis?

We know that low-dose amphetamines improve cognition in healthy individuals regardless of whether or not you have ADHD. We also know that amphetamines are very safe at therapeutic level doses and that you can take them your entire life without any problems. We also know that stimulant therapy actually reduces the chances of someone abusing drugs, even stimulants.

Why shouldn't all healthy people have a chance to reap the benefits from them? Why should you have to have a disability in order to be able to access the benefits from these drugs?

There's just no logic to the way society currently views stimulants. It's safe for me to use amphetamines to help with my ADHD symptoms but if someone without ADHD uses them in the same manor, then it's dangerous.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#55

Post by lfowles »

chm wrote: post #50

A word of caution to those readers who might want to try self-medicating: I have used pharmaceutical grade methylphenidate and amphetamines. The former inevitably led to suicidal thoughts and feelings or worthlessness at the end of the day (i.e. once the dose is gone). This happened to all of my peers who tried it. The effects were mild, but still quite noticeable. And we were healthy (both mentally and physically) y…

What kind of doses were those? I'm honestly curious what kind of doses are used "recreationally", since I was titrated over months until the APRN and I found a dose that fit and didn't have alarming side effects.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#56

Post by JohnBooty »

inDigiNeous wrote: post #16

I can't be the only one thinking that this can not be good in the long run. I still remember my friend who had a prescription for ADHD -medication, and they cut off this medication, and he couldn't do nothing but sleep for 3 weeks almost. What kind of state does prolonged use of amphetamines put the user ? Constantly being pushed to focus on one task, what kind of thought patterns does that create in the long run ? I…

I was prescribed approximately 25mg daily Adderall for 7 or 8 years, so here's my anecdotal answer to your questions...

    > I still remember my friend who had a prescription for ADHD -medication, 
    > and they cut off this medication, and he couldn't do nothing but sleep 
    > for 3 weeks almost.
Wow. That is really irresponsible of them to cut him off so suddenly. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

I definitely had a "crash" if I suddenly stopped taking it for a day, cold turkey. Would pretty much be stuck in bed.

However, if I slowly weaned myself off over a couple of days (25mg-->15mg-->5mg-->0mg) or something like that, it was no problem. Currently I haven't used any in six months.

    > What kind of state does prolonged use of amphetamines put the user ? 
    > Constantly being pushed to focus on one task, what kind of thought
    > patterns does that create in the long run ?
Now that it's been six months past, I feel no long-term changes whatsoever. Mentally, I'm back to how I used to be before Adderall.

There's no denying, though, that Adderall often made me a bit more prone to anger while I took it regularly.

I also have to say that Adderall didn't really "push me to focus on one task." It helped my focus and energy somewhat, but I definitely didn't become some kind of extreme monotasker.

    > Are we being just taught by the culture around us to work, work, work .. 
    > when we could be taking it more easy, having our thinking be more open, 
    > and not so closed and focused on the tasks ahead of us?
Absolutely, yes.

I think what bothers me about America's workaholic mentality is that it's not even effective. In the long run I firmly believe that we get less work done if we constantly push ourselves to exhaustion. We try to treat our entire work careers like we're university students trying to power our way through an all-nighter. It just doesn't work. I continually remind myself of this... the hard way.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#57

Post by semi-extrinsic »

ta_339393 wrote: post #27
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's well-established that Adderall has a profoundly different effect on people like yourself who actually have ADHD, than on those who don't have ADHD. So when TFA talks about "abuse", I understand it as referring to people who do not have ADHD but are obtaining these medications illegitimately. It is unfortunate that the article mixes this up with the (presumably legitimate) increase in ADHD diagnoses.

That is a myth, the effects are the same regardless of whether or not you have ADHD otherwise we'd be able to test for ADHD by simply giving someone amphetamines and seeing how they respond. Almost anyone who takes low-dose amphetamines will experience enhanced cognition. It just happens that this enhancement also alleviates symptoms of ADHD. As you pointed out the problem with the article is that it makes no distinc…

Not sure I'm ready to accept that this is a myth.

From "Prescription stimulants in individuals with and without attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: misuse, cognitive impact, and adverse effects", published in Brain and Behaviour (2012):

"In sum, the evidence concerning stimulant effects on working memory is mixed, with some findings of enhancement and some null results, although no findings of overall performance impairment (Smith and Farah 2011). However, the small effects were mainly evident in subjects who had low cognitive performance to start with, showing that the drug is more effective at correcting deficits than “enhancing performance.”"

Full text:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#58

Post by ta_339393 »

yarou wrote: post #40
ta_339393 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Adderall is not racemic, since that would mean a 50/50 mix of the dextrorotatory and levorotatory enantiomers. Adderall is 75% dextroamphetamine and 25% levoamphetamine in four different salts.

I could have sworn there is a formulation of 1:1 (50/50 dextro/levo), but I could be mistaken.

There is, it's called Evekeo.

In the past (up until the 60s or 70s I believe), there was also a racemic mixture available on the market as well.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#59

Post by mr_overalls »

WalterSear wrote: post #4
nibs wrote: post #2

ADHD basically means the behavioral symptoms of dopamine dysregulation. A similar thing is happening with serotonin, where people complain of subclinical (or clinical) symptoms of depression and anxiety. Why are our bodies finding homeostatis of neurotransmitters so difficult? Diet? Culture? Sleep? Constant overstimulating media? Drugs? All of them?

All of them, and also it's more complicated than depression === serotonin dysregulation.

The serotonin imbalance hypothesis of depression is old, over-simplified:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3405681/

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#60

Post by marssaxman »

It is difficult to take this article seriously given the author's repeated references to "narcotic stimulants," a contradiction in terms. It shows that they are getting their whole perspective from law enforcement, which routinely (and quite misleadingly) refers to all drugs as "narcotics" regardless of their effect. The law enforcement establishment has been spewing bullshit for decades, to a degree that has now become embarrassingly obvious, whenever it discusses drugs; if the author of the piece is still taking anything they say seriously, they are either painfully incurious or they are actively participating in the promotion of War on Drugs propaganda.
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