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Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

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Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#141

Post by dabent »

bh23ha wrote: post #75
jdminhbg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...Americans, who from my perspective seem to have trouble forming deep adult friendships." Uh...

I'm not the only one, I hear this from a lot of immigrants both from the old world and Latin America. I can't really explain it.

I've heard Americans (I'm American) complain about it, especially with their neighbors. We tend to stay holed up in our McMansions with the AC/Heat on and watch TV. Or we are the lone passenger in our car, listening to XM with the windows up.

People often just don't get to know one another on a deep level. We also tend to move around a bit, which makes maintaining friendships hard.

Now, that's not true for everyone, but it's been a lot of my experience.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#142

Post by aerique »

quant18 wrote: post #96
bh23ha wrote: post #41

This poor person is suffering from culture shock. I'm an immigrant let me explain. Culture shock is not OMG they eat X here. Culture shock develops slowly from the stress of being away from home and living in a strange land. You are long over people eating X or what ever, and then one day you're just sick of it all. Not exactly ALL of it, but you tend to fixate on the defects of the strange place you're in and you're…

And as an European I feel that American corporate culture bleeds far too far into everyone's personal life. Huh, I had the opposite experience when I worked for a small Dutch company. The amount of enforced merry-making (not to mention all the emphasis on consensus-formation) really got on my nerves. Never saw anything like it when I was working for American companies. It did remind me of my brief career in Tokyo ---…

(disclaimer: I'm Dutch)

My experience working both for several companies and for myself outsourcing myself to companies is that there's a pretty wide range of corporate cultures here in the Netherlands. Going from the enforced merry-making (which is an awesome description, since it makes me retch!) to much, much more easy going environments.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#143

Post by pwim »

cookiecaper wrote: post #45

Are people really so harsh to non-drinkers? That's sad. What about people who don't drink for religious purposes? Are they better tolerated?

Japan is a very homogeneous society. Almost no one is religious here, so I think you'd still suffer if you don't drink because of religious reasons.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#144

Post by clusterfu_k »

patio11 wrote: post #95
andrewljohnson wrote: post #49

Someone should turn on the Patio11 signal and summon him to comment on this. 00000 0000000 000P11000 0000000 00000

All appearances to the contrary, I do actually work for a living, and early morning on release Monday is a bad time to drop a thesis on my desk and ask me for comments.

just curious, what part of japan do you, or have you, live in?

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#145

Post by weeksie »

plinkplonk wrote: post #127
weeksie wrote: post #6

I can't imagine living in Japan as a vegetarian teetotaler. There's nothing wrong with that lifestyle but, man, pick your battles. Those things—the working, drinking, and meat eating—are part of the culture and it's not exactly a well kept secret. I know that I love booze and meat so I'm not going to relocate to Bangalore any time soon.

"I know that I love booze and meat so I'm not going to relocate to Bangalore any time soon." Plenty of Booze and meat in Bangalore. Good Pubs, not so much.

Booze and meat can be found in Bangalore, much the same way that vegetarian food can be found in Japan. And I've been to a few of the pubs there. Well. Yeah.

Not to say I didn't enjoy my stay, on the contrary I loved it; but I wouldn't move there and act indignant because I couldn't get good quality wine and steak.

The point was to illustrate that Southern India is a culture inclined to vegetarian food and not drinking. And while you _can_ find meat (and some semblance of wine) in Bangalore it's hardly the same as New York or Sydney (my two "homes") in that regard.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#146

Post by ciupicri »

barrkel wrote: post #133
ciupicri wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American corporations do make people do some incredible bullshit, but nothing on the level of the official greeting he mentioned. While I agree that the way they shout good morning might be a bit strange, it does make sense. It makes everyone more polite, instead of rude. And speaking of politeness, Americans are way too informal compared to other cultures. As for greetings, I hate the "How do you do?" question whi…

What pathology do you ascribe to lack of formality? What practical problems does it cause, outside of seeming odd / stupid / useless to those less familiar with it? Excessive formality, on the other hand, has been implicated in e.g. plane crashes, where inferiors hesitate to criticize their superiors when they may have made a mistake.

I find it funny that you talk about plane crashes given the fact that the Japanese army used kamikazes in WWII, although in that case there was not a mistake.

Lack of formality does not necessarily imply practical problems, it's mostly about respect. As for rules in general, let's also look at HN where you can't complain about a submission, you can only flag it. I think you'll agree with me when I say that this rule is a bit odd for a Reddit user.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#147

Post by unwind »

Vivtek wrote: post #116
intranation wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture shock to me, as someone who has visited 20-ish countries and lived in 2, is more that "things are almost normal and like what you're used to, but just not enough to be comfortable", and as a result you end up perpetually on edge and perpetually adjusting just outside your comfort zone. It's jarring and difficult, a little like the room in Orwell's 1984 where the corners aren't quite straight, and things are j…

I got that from Germany, after a month in Tokyo. I was fine in Tokyo, but in Germany I could read the signs , after all. In a month I was horribly homesick. London, though - London just about killed me in one day. I was a mess when I was younger.

Uh, not to be a complete jerk or anything, but do you realize that your comment is far easier to understand if you actually mention where you're from? Now it's like reading half of a joke.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#148

Post by pw0ncakes »

Vivtek wrote: post #115
itistoday wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't dismiss this article as simply culture shock. A university surveyed foreign students and tracked their progress as they adjusted to the new culture, they found that most people get over the culture shock after 2 semesters. [1] This guy is writing this after living 5 years in Japan. I would therefore not dismiss this as simple culture shock, it's a genuine critique of a culture after he's become accustomed…

They get over the shallow culture shock. The real culture shock is knowing you're never going to fit in where you live -but because you've been there so long, you're never going to fit in anywhere else, either. You've become an ethnic group of one. Puerto Rico did this to me over the course of about five years. I can't stay on-island for more than about a year or I flip out. Up here in the States proper has done this…

They get over the shallow culture shock. The real culture shock is knowing you're never going to fit in where you live -but because you've been there so long, you're never going to fit in anywhere else, either. You've become an ethnic group of one.

This has been my story ever since I was born. One nice thing about not fitting in is that you become friends with others who don't fit in, who tend to be the most interesting people.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#149

Post by pw0ncakes »

jdminhbg wrote: post #73
bh23ha wrote: post #41

This poor person is suffering from culture shock. I'm an immigrant let me explain. Culture shock is not OMG they eat X here. Culture shock develops slowly from the stress of being away from home and living in a strange land. You are long over people eating X or what ever, and then one day you're just sick of it all. Not exactly ALL of it, but you tend to fixate on the defects of the strange place you're in and you're…

"...Americans, who from my perspective seem to have trouble forming deep adult friendships." Uh...

Seems very accurate. After 22, my experience is that social life gets very compartmentalized. Your work friends are great to discuss work-related topics with, but most are not people you'd talk about deep philosophical questions (whether there is an afterlife, why we exist) with. And who listens to your problems? A paid therapist. And while this isn't true of prostitution in general, when high-achieving men hire prostitutes they tend to ask for the "girlfriend experience"-- kissing, cuddling, and conversation with an educated woman, because they aren't looking for sex, but for the untarnished intimacy they were able to have in high school. Americans are now paying for emotional closeness that was free in a younger, more innocent age when the stakes of even the littlest things didn't seem so high.

The problem is that American society treats success and failure as proving signs of personal merit, so everyone has to create a veneer of uninterrupted and effortless success because to seem like anything other than a rockstar signals weakness and despondency. This makes real emotional intimacy impossible.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#150

Post by Vivtek »

unwind wrote: post #147
Vivtek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got that from Germany, after a month in Tokyo. I was fine in Tokyo, but in Germany I could read the signs , after all. In a month I was horribly homesick. London, though - London just about killed me in one day. I was a mess when I was younger.

Uh, not to be a complete jerk or anything, but do you realize that your comment is far easier to understand if you actually mention where you're from? Now it's like reading half of a joke.

Indiana. I probably would have said that before I moved back, but there's something about the isolation of the American heartland that makes the rest of the world feel a little like a dream you once had. Sorry.
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