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Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

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141–150 of 154 posts

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#141
Another ex-famous person here (again, short-term-contractor).

The folks focusing on the techcrunch cribs video and drawing damning conclusions from it are, rather predictably, chasing a red herring.

For what it's worth I actually felt more productive, focused, and relaxed (in a good way) in that office than in any I've ever worked in before or since. The high ceilings made a remarkable difference. The mix of open and private spaces worked. Going to work in a place that felt like a higher-class version of your home but where you could collaborate with your coworkers was pretty amazing. It was basically what co-working spaces always try to be but can never fully pull off. It doesn't make sense to complain about the damage open plan offices are doing to productivity and then get angry at someone who does the opposite. Granted, you don't need a semi-luxury penthouse. :) But I think the office was an under-appreciated reason why they were able to get (and retain) a lot of great engineers. It was in general a very sane, reasonable environment to do good work in, in contrast to most offices.

jondubois, aikah, and others are on the right track. Making money off a front-end framework is a long shot. The monetization plan (to the extent there was one) was always heavy on optimism and reliant on a lot of things going very very right.

That's not to say it was impossible, though.

The reasons famo.us failed are the reasons most startups fail: 1. They didn't do nearly enough to truly understand their users and meet their needs 2. They didn't communicate or collaborate well or consistently enough internally.

I could say more about both 1 and 2, but I'll wrap it up there. The real narrative of what went wrong is one that's familiar and pretty generic. The subplots of what they were trying to build and who was involved just makes it all a bit more interesting to speculate about.

p.s. dmvaldman is the man – you should check out his framework and say hi.

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#142
post #79
post #16

Famo.us’ 15 minutes of open source fame have come to an end. JavaScript rendering engine Famo.us has pivoted away from its hardcore open sourced engineering platform which had raised over $31 million. It’s now refocused on commercializing the idea of powerful mobile web apps with a content management system for branded marketing apps. Yikes. If ever I wanted a paragraph printed on a poster to scare me into working ha…

the bit that made me shudder was "Our mission at Famous is to empower digital marketing professionals to build beautiful branded apps that amplify every aspect of their digital marketing campaigns.". if you believe (as i do) that people just tune out and skim over everything that sounds like "marketese", that says absolutely nothing. surely there are better ways to say the same thing, that actually make people intere…

It's a little flowery, but what about it is marketese to you? Other than the fact that they're talking to their new audience; terms like "branded app" are specific terms that have meaning to marketers.

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#143
post #110
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that essentially their pitch was that they would become the development platform for building apps. If they had considerably grown the number of apps on their platform, and gotten lots of positive developer buzz, they would have easily gotten more funding, even if they weren't making any money yet. The problem, though, is that building a new platform is really, really, really hard, and they didn't succeed. On…

The incentive for developers is that you don't write the same code twice. Of course this applies to developers whose goal is to create software, as opposed to those whose goal is to bill hourly.

That's only an incentive for developers if they individually are writing the code for both platforms. Many (most?) shops where an app is the main product (or a very important piece of the main product) have separate iOS and Android dev teams.

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#144

> Open Source ≠ Business > Newcomb himself admits it was a “divergent brainstorming process,” saying “We tried everything…we tried everything so we could create a business model around open source. And at the end of the day, we just couldn’t do it.” What a load of shit. This has nothing to do with open source. It's more like people don't want to pay for another JavaScript framework that claims to be better than the c…

Yep. Web tech needs all sorts of layers for all kinds of demanding software, so as long as you build something useful/adoptable, there should be ways to commercialize.

I'm more bullish on WebGL. To meet the desire to do VR, gaming, and data visualization on the web, a lot to be done. We went all in for the data side, and surprise, people with data problems are happy to pay for you to help them finally see it ;-)

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#145
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My god, it might have cost thousands (THOUSANDS!!!) of dollars to install some noise panels on the ceiling to cut down on noise.

It doesn't matter how much it cost. It's about priorities. If you watch the video and get the sense that this company's founder has his priorities straight, maybe you can chip in and buy the next set of panels. On second thought, it appears that the office is going to be pretty quiet soon enough.

He probably spent hours (invaluable hours!) thinking about those ceiling panels. I dunno, should their office be a hovel? Because you appear to have some sort of issue with this founder outside his attempt to make their office a nice place to work.

And why on earth would I finance ceiling tile purchases for some random company? There's something wrong with you.

ps -- while it's fine to be surprised at companies lighting money on fire, gloating about a company laying people off is all class.

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#146
Ex-famo.us (pre-pivot short-term contractor'ish) here. It's sad to see famousJS go to the grave, but I'm excited to see dmvaldman's samsaraJS (http://samsaraJS.org) evolve into something great (cakaaaaaaw!). The pre-pivot famo.us was inspiring to work with and I was humbled to see all the projects being created by both the in-house and external teams.

It was an exciting place to work, for all it's ups and downs. Besides the product itself, the office, albeit ungodly expensive given it's location and size, was the perfect place to be productive and push yourself well into the night. There were spots you could work collaboratively next to others as well as little nooks you could "hide" and get some comfy undisturbed privacy. The ambiance of the place worked beautifully to be both creative and technical, together or individually. In the grand scheme of things, I think it's an expense that easily justified the potential reward.

On the other hand, the social culture that Steve crafted, often reinforced by his example, didn't sit right with me personally, nor did it sit well with many others. "Toxic" was an unfortunate word thrown around quite a bit while I was there. I do hope he takes time off to honestly...subjectively... reflect back on how he chose to treat people he calculated could be useful to him in the moment as opposed to those who were not.

On the flip side, when child-like dreamer Steve came through, speaking about his passions and what inspires him to do what he does, he was, in those moments, a really enjoyable guy and motivational figure to work for. I'll be casting an unpopular opinion here, but I do think the guy has it in him to lead another company to success, as long as he takes a cold, hard, unbiased, and honest look at himself to fully understand why famo.us, not just the product, but more the culture he crafted, failed with him at the helm.

The most important takeaway from my stint there was working with the incredible team and crafting the friendships I did. The level of talent that many of the original engineers had and the amazing personalities behind said talent gives me no worries that those who were let go will move on to something far greater and hopefully, personally rewarding. I already know that quite a few have! :)

http://www.thefamousgroup.com - Dat logo, though.

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#148
post #30

I am quite baffled by all this. I heard of Famo.us, but didn't give it more than 1 thought. I thought it was just another framework, I would have never thought that they had employees, let alone that many and raising that much money. I watched the video in the article, and I can't believe that people are throwing money at someone with a pitch like that. I feel like everything about Famo.us is all the wrong things tha…

I think that essentially their pitch was that they would become the development platform for building apps. If they had considerably grown the number of apps on their platform, and gotten lots of positive developer buzz, they would have easily gotten more funding, even if they weren't making any money yet. The problem, though, is that building a new platform is really, really, really hard, and they didn't succeed. On…

(As I've developed for both platforms, I think I have some standing to say this)

Hold on, it's not that we don't want to build cross-platform apps, at least not universally. In my case, it's because I believe the contortions involved in abstracting out multiple wildly-divergent APIs built for different languages to a common system runtime necessarily lowers fidelity and quality for both.

"Write once run anywhere" ends up being a lot harder than "Learn once write anywhere" - I'm hopeful that React Native will demonstrate the success of this approach on mobile (even though, personally, I wish there were a non-JS option).

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#149
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how much it cost. It's about priorities. If you watch the video and get the sense that this company's founder has his priorities straight, maybe you can chip in and buy the next set of panels. On second thought, it appears that the office is going to be pretty quiet soon enough.

He probably spent hours (invaluable hours!) thinking about those ceiling panels. I dunno, should their office be a hovel? Because you appear to have some sort of issue with this founder outside his attempt to make their office a nice place to work. And why on earth would I finance ceiling tile purchases for some random company? There's something wrong with you. ps -- while it's fine to be surprised at companies light…

> He probably spent hours (invaluable hours!) thinking about those ceiling panels.

When you run an unprofitable company that subsists on investor money, every single hour of leadership's time is invaluable.

> I dunno, should their office be a hovel?

So the choice for startups is a) a swagged-out office in one of the most expensive commercial real estate markets or b) hovel? What world do you live in?

> Because you appear to have some sort of issue with this founder outside his attempt to make their office a nice place to work.

You're free to believe this office represents a modest attempt at creating "a nice place to work," but outside of bubbleland, most people will see excess.

By the way, "a nice place to work" is just as much about how people are treated and interact with each other than it is about all of the "stuff" that gets put in the office. Unfortunately, leadership teams at many early-stage startups today don't seem to recognize this.

> And why on earth would I finance ceiling tile purchases for some random company?

It's only "THOUSANDS!!!" of dollars. You seemed genuinely concerned by the noise levels.

> while it's fine to be surprised at companies lighting money on fire, gloating about a company laying people off is all class.

I started my career at a dot bomb in the first boom/bust, so I have been on the other side. It taught me one of the best and most profitable lessons of my life: don't work for people who seem better at spending money than making it. Hopefully some of the younger folks who get laid off for the first time in this cycle will come away with lessons of their own that will help them avoid being fooled again in the future.

Finally, you seem to be missing the fact that lots of people are not surprised startups today are lighting money on fire. We see it every day, and many of us frequently point it out. What baffles me is that folks like you are surprised at where this leads and indignant when somebody points out that a bad outcome was more than likely. Shouldn't your indignation be directed at the people who are responsible for the incompetence, excess and waste?

Re: Famo.us pivots, fires 20 employees

#150
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He probably spent hours (invaluable hours!) thinking about those ceiling panels. I dunno, should their office be a hovel? Because you appear to have some sort of issue with this founder outside his attempt to make their office a nice place to work. And why on earth would I finance ceiling tile purchases for some random company? There's something wrong with you. ps -- while it's fine to be surprised at companies light…

> He probably spent hours (invaluable hours!) thinking about those ceiling panels. When you run an unprofitable company that subsists on investor money, every single hour of leadership's time is invaluable. > I dunno, should their office be a hovel? So the choice for startups is a) a swagged-out office in one of the most expensive commercial real estate markets or b) hovel? What world do you live in? > Because you ap…

Your hypothesis is perhaps ten thousand dollars of noise panels and hours of a CEO's time is material to a company and/or a factor in its success. Neither of those make or break a company. It's hardly "swagged-out", and is cheaper than other office space according to the very video you watched. Low noise levels do contribute to both productivity and someplace being nice to work in.

There's plenty of counterexamples (including several I've worked for) who have somehow succeeded despite spending relatively modest amounts of money to make the office a pleasant place instead of a loud dump with sawhorse desks and 20 year old carpeting. If you're complaining about sfbay rates, well, that's what office space costs here.

Believing spending well under one engineer's annual salary made a bad outcome more or less likely is nothing other than dumb.

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