Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wut? What does this have to do with vehicle manufacturers programming their ECUs to defeat emissions tests? There isn't a single diesel truck that 'rolls coal' from the factory. Also, diesel trucks that emit black smoke do fail emissions test - in counties that actually have emissions tests.
Apparently a lot of people who make these sorts of modifications can pass emission tests. They hook up a settings swapper to the ECU, and when they need it to be clean, they put it into factory default mode. It is essentially the same sort of cheating as VW.
E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
141–150 of 160 posts
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#142Are they testing other cars beside VW?
There are at least going to be long term changes to how the testing is done.
I guess they saw everyone cheats by at least 2x, as some reports have also said.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
> At what point does it become economical to just run gasoline instead of diesel then (that is, manufacturers selling gasoline models)? If we are talking about diesel still being economical instead of gasoline, but just not as economical as when it was allowed to be more polluting, I'm not sure I can muster much sympathy (but I'm fairly uneducated on the subject, so it may just a matter of not knowing enough). People…
> The EPA made standards that are impossible to meet using any available technology without causing some or all of the problems I mentioned. I think you're being hyperbolic here in saying that the standards are impossible to meet. What about urea injection? That works pretty well, right? But even ignoring that, it's not like there's some god-given right to run diesel engines. Either the emissions standards are reason…
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#144Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW until they start passing the new emissions tests? Even better, begin requiring previously purchased VW cars pass these emissions tests. If the cars don't pass the new emissions tests then VW is required to reimburse the blue book value of the car for false advertising, fraud, and acting in bad faith.
Much as I'd like to see it happen, bankrupting a multi-billion dollar company isn't something that regulators do on a lark.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#145Background: I used to be an automotive software engineer. I speak for myself only here. Whenever the topic of automotive software comes up on HN there are comments alongs the lines of "global variables bad", but not much construtive feedback. I want to explain some of the tradeoffs that lead to the architecture used in automotive software to get a better discussion going with HN readers about that architecture. tl;dr…
When coming to work from university (1989-90), I made a somewhat similar though more primitive design for the embedded software of a redundancy controller of a satellite modem. The various tasks (control of RF and baseband electronics, display and buttons UI, network management interface, etc) would run according to a scheduler, each in turn. No dynamic memory allocation, internal communication via global variables that are written only in one place. There was no mechanism to actually enforce this, it was just the principle in code, and the enforcement was possible because it was a one-man software project so I had no one else to blame.
This was written in PL/M (which looks like Pascal but is more similar to a primitive variant of C) on a 8031 microcontroller, from scratch (no 3rd party SW components at all - that was a long ago).
Later on, I used the same platform for a design we did on a telephone/data cable modem we designed for domestic use (We saw a need for internet enabled cable modem in 1992 and started work on a thing that provided POTS and 128 kbit/s over SLIP). That was also running a 8031, but as we wanted to make it dirt cheap, the board did not have dual-port RAM. The hardware wizards made it run with a hack on the regular RAM access so that the SW could only access RAM if it read any memory location twice: first read would just place the address bits on the bus, and doing another read would actually fetch the content. This enabled us to save several dollars per device.
(This was possible because the 8031 has an architecture which is not strictly von Neumann design: the code and address spaces are different memory spaces and you use different CPU instructions to access the different memories, so your program memory on EPROM works normally but your data memory in external RAM does not. There's also a small internal RAM in yet another overlapping address space which was not impacted by address bus weirdness.)
This is just to show what kind of strange limitations you sometimes have on the hardware in embedded devices. Unlimited virtual memory, large non-volatile storage instead of a puny i2C bus EEPROM... you just dreamed of those. Modern controllers with 4G flash are really huge compared to that, but they are still far below what people have on desktop computers, or even an Android phone.
The limitations in embedded devices indeed come from cost per device as well as heat, vibration, radiation, humidity and similar environmental factors.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, they're Porsche. I imagine "seeing if it lives up to the Porsche marquee" primarily involves flogging it to make sure it drives well. Do you associate the Porsche brand with a dedication to fuel economy or low emissions?
The vehicles have to independently pass the emissions tests. Even if they have a a crate engine from some other supplier. All of the compliance engineers throughout all of VAG only test emissions to the EPA test rig? Even the ones at Porsche? Nobody is going with Porsche for fuel economy but nobody is expecting to have their Porsche lose power due to a recall either. It's a premium badge, I expect them to dot more of…
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#147"But even so, Bosch still supplied the “defeat” code EDC 16 engine management system at the heart of the #Dieselgate scandal"
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#148http://junkscience.com/2012/10/new-documents-prove-falsifica...
They were experimenting on human subjects without informed consent and using the data to overstate results that favored the regulations they wanted to impose.
These regulations set the particulate limits diesel powered vehicles must meet.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I certainly don't buy the "pesky engineers" argument, it's actually somewhat plausible Porsche didn't know about the cheating (beyond what everyone knew, which was that the stated mileage and emissions were virtually impossible to achieve by any known mechanism). Since they dropped a VW manufactured engine (3.0 TDI) into a shared VW chassis (Touraeg) and built the Cayenne around that, there's a good chance the…
Surly Porsche has their own quality assurance and compliance engineers though? And they're proper Teutonic Engineers, right? I mean, they're Porsche engineers... They'd just take an engine from their parent company and not see that it lives up to the Porsche marquee? Maybe it's possible, but if it is, Porsche is really not the Porsche I think it is or want it to be.
The legend of the prowess of German engineering is one of the longest-standing and most successful corporate marketing campaigns pulled of, right up there with DeBeers 3 month salary rule. Watch any Volkswagen ad, and you can see it in action.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#150I'm conflicted. What do people think about the ethics of buying (non-diesel) Volkswagen cars at this point? Obviously new cars pad VW's profits and reward bad behavior. But what about used ones? Seems like prices will be plummeting. And if you like the cars, seems like a great time to buy.
What do people think about the ethics of buying (non-diesel) Volkswagen cars at this point? Hey, if you want to buy a shit car, I don't think ethics really factor into it. All kidding aside, despite being in absolutely no danger of ever buying another VW, I would think of it like I think of buying from (to pick a recent popular whipping boy) Amazon: does giving money to the company vote for the world you want to live…