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YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#141

Post by IkmoIkmo »

djtriptych wrote: post #139
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Black people aren't discriminated because they're from a 'black race', there is no black race. They're discriminated against because their skin color is black. Discrimination on the basis of skin color can (and obviously does) exist without the existence of an concept of race. As for hispanic, that's an ethnonym, i.e. an ethnic group, that's exactly my point. This is how we talk in say the Netherlands about…

btw you may want to stop holding up the Netherlands as soem paragon of racial/ethnic enlightenment.

Oh I'm all too familiar with the issues as a minority in the Netherlands, don't worry. But I like to speak about places I know something about.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#142

Post by Mz »

arturventura wrote: post #9

I'm not trying to be a troll, I'm just trying to find a justification. Having something that says you can only can come in if you are "Black, Hispanic, Women, Veterans, and International founders" kinda racist as fuck? It sounds exactly like segregation to me. Again, not trying to be a troll. Not American, just trying to understand.

It is kind of a brute force methodology, but it is kind of all we have. We would need a more elegant understanding of the problem space in order to address such things effectively without relying on some kind of racism/classism/OtherIsm to select for who needs some help getting a leg up when they are routinely left out by our current processes. Perhaps we can gain that understanding, but if it already existed, we wouldn't have the problems we currently have. So perhaps not a good time to hold out for some perfect solution.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#143

Post by bakhy »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #73

First, I want to state that I'm glad YC is making such a step to help struggling founders. While I don't run a startup, I'm super divided on this post, and here's why: A) It seems both condescending and racist at the same time (i.e. you're a minority in SV? surely you're doing terrible - let us help. You're white in SV? you must be doing great, move along we're not looking to help you) -- As others have stated, it's…

> If the ground really is that uneven maybe the problem is not the founders, but the system (again, how to change that is a super complicated discussion)

don't avoid this discussion, it is essential. it's not complicated. we are all part of the system, and if we all chip in to even the field, things will improve.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#144

Post by djtriptych »

monknomo wrote: post #137
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither is black or hispanic. The entire debate around 'race' in the US I find is riddled with outdated concepts and semantics. In many developed countries's dialogue on these issues the semantics rarely touch on race anymore as it's quite meaningless and scientifically untenable. Instead when we talk about different peoples in socioeconomic debates by referring to various ethnicities (which are quite flexible, you c…

Some of the confusion comes from African-American essentially being an ethnicity. There is a shared culture and heritage, but in addition to the normal aspects of an ethnicity there is the element that people from the dominant American ethnicity (white people) can put people in the African-American ethnicity based on how they are perceived. Like a black person from Nigeria has very different experiences than a black…

I wasn't going to make that last point today but yes, black race was for centuries a legal construct in addition to an ethnic one. The American concept of race doesn't travel well.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#145

Post by bakhy »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #101
mwseibel wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can't look at open office hours in a vacuum. YC does tons of outreach - for example: college tour, startup school, Stanford startup class, speaking at conferences around the world, blog posts with advice to founders, etc. Most importantly, YC has an open application process and you don't have to have any sort of connection to get in. Open Office Hours is just another tool we can use to do outreach to star…

Again, I think the outreact YC is doing is amazing, and I applaud them for doing it. I'd rather have this kind of conversation (about the wording of something like this) rather than not have the outreach effort exist at all. Honestly the point of my comment was to do with tact and wording. It's super clear that YC is trying it's best to be accessible to all, and to do the right thing by groups that may feel marginali…

> but it's also divisive to make it seem like a group is inherently more valuable for no reason other than the color of their skin, or life choices, or whatever.

it is also the truth, and it is a problem. labelling is like a joke compared to all the things that discriminated groups experience.

edit - apologies, i thought you said 'vulnerable'. valuable? where did you get that from?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#146

Post by balls187 »

tcdent wrote: post #106
johnathanNYC wrote: post #87

As someone who is both (afro-latino), I'm really excited about this. After reading the majority of the comments, I'm a little disappointed. It seems that many do not understand that being white and male in the United States, by default, affords many privileges that monitories struggle to obtain. If there any questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. Curious to why the word Hispanic was used instead of Latino. If…

I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. I absolutely agree there is a problem. I've heard many first-hand accounts of violence and disrespect from all races. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't just take the labels from a pie chart and reinforce the dividing lines between what ultimately is one group.

> I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities.

* Innocent until proven guilty (See driving while black)

* Citizenship is rarely, if ever, questioned

* Friendly relationship with Law Enforcement/Authority

* Better health care[1]

1: http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/black-kids-get-les...

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#147

Post by briholt »

mwseibel wrote: post #110
briholt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think all the efforts towards social outreach would focus on poverty as their #1 criteria - the most direct and obvious criteria of people in need - but they almost never do. The problem is these programs are created by upper-class people in their media-social bubble, cobbled together from the arbitrary championings within that bubble. Unfortunately poverty doesn't have a strong, dedicated representative in…

In the larger context of YC outreach to thousands of founders a year why is a special program for targeted outreach creating harm?

Following that logic, why is the tech industry targeting mostly white men creating harm? Why did the Boy Scouts banning gays create harm? Why did all-white country clubs create harm? Why did a ban on gay marriage create harm? We can easily justify any exclusive institution by ignoring the outsiders and weigh only the benefits to the insiders. Of course, this is painfully ironic when the purpose of the institution, in this case, is inclusion.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#148

Post by hardwaresofton »

bakhy wrote: post #143
hardwaresofton wrote: post #73

First, I want to state that I'm glad YC is making such a step to help struggling founders. While I don't run a startup, I'm super divided on this post, and here's why: A) It seems both condescending and racist at the same time (i.e. you're a minority in SV? surely you're doing terrible - let us help. You're white in SV? you must be doing great, move along we're not looking to help you) -- As others have stated, it's…

> If the ground really is that uneven maybe the problem is not the founders, but the system (again, how to change that is a super complicated discussion) don't avoid this discussion, it is essential. it's not complicated. we are all part of the system, and if we all chip in to even the field, things will improve.

I just wanted to make explicit that "changing the system" is difficult, and there are many facets to the problem (and that I recognized that truth).

I discuss these issues somewhat regularly with some colleagues, so I feel like I have solutions that work for me (maybe I'll make a blog post sometime, but I am worried I'll just add to the noise).

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#149

Post by balls187 »

lbotos wrote: post #116
tcdent wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what privileges you perceive, or know to be true, for non-minorities. I absolutely agree there is a problem. I've heard many first-hand accounts of violence and disrespect from all races. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't just take the labels from a pie chart and reinforce the dividing lines between what ultimately is one group.

I'm white. I was once 14. I used to bring in all kinds of hacked together computer things to my high school all the time. I'd even bring in a soldering iron and solder at lunch. I was never arrested or questioned or considered a threat. Ahmed Mohammed was considered a threat. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34266389

> I'm white. I was once 14.

When was this? I also was once 14, and I look like my name should be Ahmed Mohammed. I too also brought in crazy stuff to school. I was never considered a threat.

Ofc this was 1994, and that was well before mass school shootings, and 9/11 (however it was during the height of gang violence and so any perceived gang affiliation was dealt with in similar manner).

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#150

Post by Mz »

briholt wrote: post #39
staunch wrote: post #4

> Black, Hispanic, Women, Veterans, and International founders. I think it's great that YC is concerned about helping non-elite people. What about just focusing on helping poor people compete in Silicon Valley in general? Does anyone think wealthy founders of any kind need more help than poor founders of any kind?

You would think all the efforts towards social outreach would focus on poverty as their #1 criteria - the most direct and obvious criteria of people in need - but they almost never do. The problem is these programs are created by upper-class people in their media-social bubble, cobbled together from the arbitrary championings within that bubble. Unfortunately poverty doesn't have a strong, dedicated representative in…

You would think all the efforts towards social outreach would focus on poverty as their #1 criteria

This is a really, really, really terrible criteria to use. It is one with a proven track record of actively encouraging people to be failures in order to qualify for assistance and it becomes a trap they don't know how to escape. It is much, much, much more effective to define need or merit on some basis other than poverty. It is much better for society to say children, handicapped individuals, new parents, people recently fired...etc... deserve or need assistance and not "poor people."

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