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YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#81

Post by 78666cdc »

mindcrime wrote: post #63

I think this is a good move, and glad to see YC doing it. And this is coming from somebody who is neither black nor hispanic. I mean, I get the whole "isn't this just affirmative action and isn't AA bad?" thing, I really do. But this is a private business, not a government agency, and they are free to try and address issues of equality and what-not in whichever way they see fit. And when you're part of a group that i…

The flaw in this argument is that it makes the implicit assumption that having more startups founded by black or hispanic founders is good just because there are more startups founded by black or hispanic founders.

That there is underrepresentation with respect to a minority is indicative of that minority generally having lower socioeconomic status, and perhaps prejudices against it. To try to combat whatever those prejudices may be, the suggestion here is that "diversity is good" and that just having more minorities will help the problem.

The difference is that it actually won't, because now you have a perception of people being given opportunities they don't deserve, just because they are a minority.

A much, much better way to try to deconstruct the sorts of prejudices or minority disadvantages, which this initiative is ostensibly trying to do, is to make these sorts of initiatives open to anyone disadvantaged (such as the poor), and invest in programs targeted at children in poorer (disproportionately minority) communities.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#82

Post by tptacek »

officialchicken wrote: post #76
tptacek wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have some special insight about YC you can relate to us showing why that isn't just a bunch of stuff you made up?

He wasn't asking about YC, he was asking about the culture. Is there a reason you're so defensive? I can find links to YC "trying to open markets", but it's 2015, and I don't think you are dumb.

I'm not defensive about criticisms of this YC program, although I find all of them preposterous.

My hackles are, however, raised by the virulent strain of HN comments written by anonymous users confidently asserting that they understand the motives of people they've never met.

The word "probably" in the comment upthread is where the switch flipped in my brain that made me respond. Oh really? Probably, you say? Please tell us more. You've made an assertion; it's right there in the thread. Now stand by it and back it up with evidence.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#83

Post by 78666cdc »

tptacek wrote: post #72
78666cdc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>all of the time is "white male time" Like black churches and communities, professional women's societies, women's shelters, scholarships for women, women's clubs at schools, and so on? In elementary schools, where >90% of teachers are female? Among psychology majors, with 60-70% women? Do you really suggest that it is always "white male time" everywhere? Go ask a white kid growing up in a mostly black, poor neighbor…

Have you spent any time in or near a predominantly black church? There's one on my corner. There's white people there all the time. And did you really just suggest that "women's shelters" somehow advantage women over men? Suggested Google search: [lucky ducky comic]. You might also enjoy the editorial cartoon stylings of Stan Kelly.

You're putting words in my mouth. But if you want to talk about that, then yes, there is more support for homeless women than there is for men.

But that is beside the point here. My point was to list a handful of the many counterexamples to "it is white male time all the time", which is a silly claim, at least as stated.

Strike that example off the list, then. It doesn't change the original comment's point.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#84

Post by 78666cdc »

anigbrowl wrote: post #68
78666cdc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a poor study to cite. If you took two people of any one race and sent them looking for jobs, probably as often as not one would fare much better than the other just because of individual variability. You get hired based on your interview(s), not your resume.

Generally people who research employment discrimination send out identical resumes except for a test factor and then use the number of interview invitations as a proxy for reaction to the test factor.

Then cite that rather than an unscientific, non-rigorous "study" (read: anecdote).

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#85

Post by 78666cdc »

djtriptych wrote: post #75
78666cdc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>all of the time is "white male time" Like black churches and communities, professional women's societies, women's shelters, scholarships for women, women's clubs at schools, and so on? In elementary schools, where >90% of teachers are female? Among psychology majors, with 60-70% women? Do you really suggest that it is always "white male time" everywhere? Go ask a white kid growing up in a mostly black, poor neighbor…

Your conclusion (race doesn't matter) is inconsistent with your evidence (black churches and communities exist).

Where did I say that race doesn't matter?

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#86

Post by notNow »

arturventura wrote: post #9

I'm not trying to be a troll, I'm just trying to find a justification. Having something that says you can only can come in if you are "Black, Hispanic, Women, Veterans, and International founders" kinda racist as fuck? It sounds exactly like segregation to me. Again, not trying to be a troll. Not American, just trying to understand.

Well, at face value this could be construed as an act of "Affirmative Action". Some people in non white groups could view it as patronizing or condemn as an act of "white saviorship" or an extension of the "white man's burden" philosophy. Other critics on the other end of the spectrum would view it as counter-productive and enforcing of racial division lines or taken to an extreme as "reverse racism".

I on the other tend to give people the benefit of doubt before rushing to judgements. The fact that they excluded Asians whether for the East or the South from the preferential treatment makes me think that they're acting in good faith and with the best intentions till further notice.

BTW: I am not Caucasian. Since we brought up race in this discussion.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#87

Post by johnathanNYC »

As someone who is both (afro-latino), I'm really excited about this. After reading the majority of the comments, I'm a little disappointed. It seems that many do not understand that being white and male in the United States, by default, affords many privileges that monitories struggle to obtain. If there any questions about this, I'd be happy to answer.

Curious to why the word Hispanic was used instead of Latino. If you are unfamiliar with the difference, read here: http://www.diffen.com/difference/Hispanic_vs_Latino

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#88

Post by mwseibel »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #73

First, I want to state that I'm glad YC is making such a step to help struggling founders. While I don't run a startup, I'm super divided on this post, and here's why: A) It seems both condescending and racist at the same time (i.e. you're a minority in SV? surely you're doing terrible - let us help. You're white in SV? you must be doing great, move along we're not looking to help you) -- As others have stated, it's…

I think you can't look at open office hours in a vacuum. YC does tons of outreach - for example: college tour, startup school, Stanford startup class, speaking at conferences around the world, blog posts with advice to founders, etc. Most importantly, YC has an open application process and you don't have to have any sort of connection to get in. Open Office Hours is just another tool we can use to do outreach to startups and when considered in combination with our other efforts I think it's only fair to conclude that we are trying to make YC assessable to all (regardless of background).

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#89

Post by tptacek »

78666cdc wrote: post #83
tptacek wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you spent any time in or near a predominantly black church? There's one on my corner. There's white people there all the time. And did you really just suggest that "women's shelters" somehow advantage women over men? Suggested Google search: [lucky ducky comic]. You might also enjoy the editorial cartoon stylings of Stan Kelly.

You're putting words in my mouth. But if you want to talk about that, then yes, there is more support for homeless women than there is for men. But that is beside the point here. My point was to list a handful of the many counterexamples to "it is white male time all the time", which is a silly claim, at least as stated. Strike that example off the list, then. It doesn't change the original comment's point.

I'm not sure how I can simultaneously be "putting words in your mouth" and pointing out things that you actually do believe.

Your examples were bad. I'm going to go ahead and assert that the "black church" example shoots past "bad" and reaches "offensive"; predominantly black churches do not exclude people of other ethnicities.

Re: YC Open Office Hours for Black and Hispanic Founders

#90

Post by BigCatStuff »

robot wrote: post #64

Hand-holding minorities label them even more as a group that needs to be helped. They should be encouraged to be successful in the "same" environment as others and treated the same. The moment you do something "for" them is the moment you label them as that group that needs hand-holding even more. I don't think they need special treatment this way. It is done by good intention, but it does not need saying, you're bla…

I get what you're saying; that the VC industry should "just do it" rather than make a splash by announcing a program. However, if someone is in one of these minority groups, and has tried to raise funding in a very white, male dominated VC industry, I'd guess that when pitching, sometimes either the rapport was off or they felt that the other side didn't wholly understand you.

I'm not saying that it's intentional on the VC end, because it's human nature to go with who or what you understand and feel comfortable with.

By announcing a program like this, it may encourage minorities to seek advice, when they otherwise might not have.

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