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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#141

Post by curun1r »

stoshe wrote: post #123
sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

It's purely anecdotal, but it's been a well known "fact" within my circle of developers that working for Amazon is a death march and not something you should consider unless you are desperate or intend to make it a short stint where they are offering a title and pay increase worth the 1-2 years of hell that working there would be. True or not, perception is reality and Amazon has attained a rather poor reputation in…

The perception I've gotten is somewhat different, though based on much of the same stories. I don't think Amazon is a horrible place to work, but it seems like a horrible place to stay for too long.

I had a roommate who was a nurse who and worked in a couple of area hospitals. When I asked her why she drove 90 minutes to one hospital rather than working all her hours at closer area hospitals, her response was, "That hospital is in a poorer area of town and gets all sorts of bizarre and desperate medical issues. It would take me 5 years at the other hospital to get the experience I'll get in six months a that hospital."

I think Amazon is like that hospital. It's an amazing place to grow and learn things you basically can't learn otherwise. And employers elsewhere know it. When I get an Amazon candidate who spent more than a year there, I can basically know ahead of time that that candidate will pass the technical part of the interview process. But once you've got that 1-2 years of experience, it's a place to leave, go elsewhere and get treated/paid better.

But again, this is based on anecdotal evidence from past Amazon employees...I've never worked there.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#142

Post by asgard1024 »

NoGravitas wrote: post #83
adultSwim wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there was a structure to represent workers where we could take such issues...

Maybe workers could come together to build such a structure...somewhere they could come together to negotiate their conditions of employment...

What a revolutionary idea!

Seriously though, I wonder why humans tolerate the hierarchical structures so much. I am proponent of direct democracy and worker cooperatives but curiously enough, to many people the idea seems wrong.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#143

Post by Mithaldu »

otterley wrote: post #24

I'm actually pleased with Mr. Bezos' response. He doesn't deny any of the stories in the article, and he doesn't try to explain any of them away. His attitude strikes me as one of a problem-solver and one who cares about his company's reputation. I can't recall the last time I heard the CEO of a large company say publicly, "if you've been treated this way, reach out to me personally."

His personal email address is 100% guaranteed staffed by a team of secretaries. It might've been respectable if it had been an email specifically for such complaints and no other user, and instructions on how to send things to it anonymously. But as things stand it's just an attempt to get people like you, who haven't been burned badly enough yet, to think he's actually being "nice" there.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#144

Post by mikestew »

blindhippo wrote: post #23

First world problems like no other... We're talking about highly paid professionals working at a rather cushy job all things considered. It's like listening to rich kids complain about having blue M&M's touching the red M&M's in their bowl of candy. Nothing in this whole bit of drama is shocking other then I'm not quite sure why Amazon is being singled out. All of the complaints made are systematic problems in any la…

> The chief competition is Walmart - are the activists going to order from them instead? How is that any better ethically?

Go away, constructor of straw men. The world is not solely comprised of Wal-Mart and Amazon.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#145

Post by cherimoya »

dredmorbius wrote: post #95
cherimoya wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep this in mind: It's easier to find a job when you already have one. It takes the stress off the process and you automatically become more desirable for some reason. If I were you I wouldn't cut off the opportunity immediately, but I would continue looking for another job at the same time. The world has changed in the last few decades in terms of job loyalty so there won't be any kind of stigma against you if you…

Counterpoint: Amazon's use and enforcement of noncompetes.

This is true I guess. I haven't seen their contract. I've never had an issue with any noncompetes in my contracts though. I can see why you wouldn't want to employ and train people in your business only for them to go to a direct competitor. I think that's fair, you just need to look for a good job in an unrelated business.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#146

Post by myth_buster »

qihqi wrote: post #140

As an exAmazonian I think Amazon treated me decently. I ultimately left for some place that treat me even better (with free food and better pay); but I did not believe that I am entitled to those perks. Judging by life of the few Amazonians I know personally, most of them agree with me. I only know one person who complained heavily about Amazon and it is more about his team and having a crappy boss than about the com…

  but I did not believe that I am entitled to those perks
This is the hook as people usually underestimate themselves and this comes into play during salary negotiations too.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#147

Post by wtetzner »

seibelj wrote: post #6
leftnode wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're on a visa and having a job is a requirement of keeping said visa.

That is the same situation at any company with H1B's, and I didn't see anything in the article that mentioned abuse of those workers specifically.

The point is it's not so easy to leave in that situation.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#148

Post by [deleted] »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#149

Post by balls187 »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

This whole notion of "HR isn't your friend" is nonsensical. No department at the company is your friend. You stop performing at your job, you will probably be fired--or promoted.

Even your real friends won't be your friends for very long if their own self-interests are always in contention against your own.

HR is fulfills a specific sets of roles for the company and they exist to look out for the best interest of the company, the same way pretty much any other department operates.

Even executives have to operate in such a manner or be in breach of their fiduciary duties.

If your work environment is toxic, find a better environment---if you have that luxury as some do not. If you think the problem isn't pervasive, try to change it with the help of HR--clearly it's in the companies best interest not to have toxic work environments.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#150

Post by AUmrysh »

steven2012 wrote: post #20
sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

I have decided to stop the interview process with Amazon as a result of this article. Life is too short to have to deal with working in such a poisonous culture as described. I've had a few people mention how much Amazon sucks, at least in the Bay Area, but I thought maybe it was just a coincidence, but based on the article, it seems like it's their culture.

Both interviews I did with Amazon were pretty poor. I am a little upset by their advocacy and use of visa workers, as though there are no American engineers capable of doing the work. Facebook and other tech giants are guilty of this too.
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