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“Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

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Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#131

Post by fsk »

option wrote: post #120
fsk wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. I have a hard time believing that one. Given how high programmer salaries are, the productivity loss due to open offices is almost definitely more than the office space savings. It seems like an introvert/extrovert thing. The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers), but…

Just have some respect for yourself - do not accept job offer if you don't get an office (unless it is a very early stage startup)

The problem is that cuts out 99%+ of all employers.

When was the last time you interviewed someplace that gave all programmers their own office?

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#132

Post by ChristianBundy »

ethanbond wrote: post #125
fsk wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. I have a hard time believing that one. Given how high programmer salaries are, the productivity loss due to open offices is almost definitely more than the office space savings. It seems like an introvert/extrovert thing. The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers), but…

> The introverts ... usually the best workers,... extroverts... usually the bosses That's an incredibly simplistic way to view an effective workforce.

I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that fsk views himself as an introvert.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#133

Post by rifung »

fsk wrote: post #108
moe wrote: post #81

a single room that fits thousands of people. What a nightmare. These "glass palace" offices may work for bankers or marketing teams. For programmers you could just as well plant their desks into the middle of a mall.

The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. I have a hard time believing that one. Given how high programmer salaries are, the productivity loss due to open offices is almost definitely more than the office space savings. It seems like an introvert/extrovert thing. The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers), but…

"The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers)"

Uh what? I'm an extreme introvert but don't see any reason to believe introverts are usually the best workers. I am not even that convinced that introverts would prefer a quiet working space any more than extroverts do. After all, just because someone is extroverted doesn't mean they have an easier time concentrating in a noisy environment.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#134

Post by geofft »

Swizec wrote: post #48
nostrademons wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Hamming's quote pretty much sums up my personal experience with both open and closed offices. In a private office, your personal productivity is maximized; you get the most lines of code written, the most research done, the hardest problems solved. And yet the cumulative effect of that productivity seems to be much less than that of peers who write little, endure distractions, but are always in tune with whic…

I think the real problem is one of aligning incentives. I would welcome open plan offices much more if I was incentivized for team performance. Instead I get forced into open collaboration-enhancing offices with the idea of increasing team productivity. But on scrums and all other things I am judged on the merits of personal productivity (tickets closed, issues resolved, whatever). This leaves me disgruntled because…

We, as an industry, need to start pushing employers to make job posts talk more about "Management measures your value to the company in these ways, and rewards them in these ways" and less about "We've got a kegerator and a ball pit."

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#135

Post by [deleted] »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #20
phildougherty wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move to France http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/20/france-decrees-...

That is great! I'd love to see all parking lots covered by solar panels and all roof tops covered with green space and solar panels. (But I could never live in France. Two weeks was 13 days too long.)

[deleted]

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#136

Post by fsk »

bane wrote: post #96
cylinder wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's a photo of this massive open floor?

It looks kind of like this, except with computers and people sitting at them http://boysandfrogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/costco2.j...

Don't insult Costco like that.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#137

Post by jordigh »

Retra wrote: post #116
jordigh wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what a slippery slope argument is. I am not arguing that some event must follow inevitably from the other without presenting an argument for why this follows. Anyway, what bugs me so much is the entitlement. Sure, maybe you can find a job like that. But what makes you think that you deserve it? And yes, there is a problem with being entitled. The world is already too full of selfish assholes. I really woul…

>I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job. So much entitlement... I highly suspect your measurement of "too much entitlement" is a matter of your own jealousy.

Let me rephrase: being around such a person would probably rub me the wrong way, but I wouldn't refuse to work in a company with assholes, because every company has an unpleasant person once in a while.

Jealousy? Of what? Of wanting too much?

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#138

Post by Touche »

fsk wrote: post #108
moe wrote: post #81

a single room that fits thousands of people. What a nightmare. These "glass palace" offices may work for bankers or marketing teams. For programmers you could just as well plant their desks into the middle of a mall.

The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. I have a hard time believing that one. Given how high programmer salaries are, the productivity loss due to open offices is almost definitely more than the office space savings. It seems like an introvert/extrovert thing. The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers), but…

>Given how high programmer salaries are

This myth persists huh.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#139

Post by Igglyboo »

pyre wrote: post #112
fsk wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. I have a hard time believing that one. Given how high programmer salaries are, the productivity loss due to open offices is almost definitely more than the office space savings. It seems like an introvert/extrovert thing. The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers), but…

> The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. To be fair, I don't think everyone that uses the term "open office" is thinking "auditorium with 1000+ people." Attempting to extrapolate anything conclusions taken from open office environments of 4-10 people out to 1000+ people seems insane.

I work in an open office space that usually has around 6 people but never more than 10 and I like it a lot.

1000 sounds like a nightmare.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#140

Post by calinet6 »

rifung wrote: post #133
fsk wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. I have a hard time believing that one. Given how high programmer salaries are, the productivity loss due to open offices is almost definitely more than the office space savings. It seems like an introvert/extrovert thing. The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers), but…

"The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers)" Uh what? I'm an extreme introvert but don't see any reason to believe introverts are usually the best workers. I am not even that convinced that introverts would prefer a quiet working space any more than extroverts do. After all, just because someone is extroverted doesn't mean they have an easier time concentrating in a noisy…

Extrovert here, former introvert (yeah, it's not fixed). I appreciate the defense against what is at the very least a statement of extreme arrogance by the GP.

I love a quiet workspace, and I also enjoy an open office plan. There's a need for the advantages of both environments—the ease of collaboration and the focused heads-down time—which is why this is such a difficult discussion to have.

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