To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children • Hacker News Board

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#131

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 2:19 AM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #105

pzxc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how do you quantify it? How much harm is caused to herd immunity by 1 more child not getting vaccinated? What is the expected value of that -- the probability that the disease for which the vaccine is available actually occurs in such a way that the voluntarily-nonvaccinated person contracts it and then passes it on to someone who is involuntarily nonvaccinated? How does the expected value of that harm (probabili…

I understand what you're saying, and I get that you're playing devil's advocate here. I'm not saying 'screw vaccination deniers', I think we should have this conversation. My position is simply that your rights end where mine begin. This isn't like teaching alternatives to evolution in public school. If you don't want to believe in evolution, it irks me, but that doesn't really hurt me. People can die when others ref…

[deleted]

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#132

Post by Vendan » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 5:07 AM UTC

maxlybbert wrote: post #124

Vendan wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shingles isn't a separate disease. If you had chicken pox, you have the shingles virus in you already. If you had the chicken pox vaccine before you got exposed to chicken pox, you don't. And the only shingles specific vaccine is only for ages 50+, which isn't terribly useful for people like me, who get it at age 27.

You're right. I wasn't thinking when I wrote the comment. Still, the CDC's page for the chicken pox vaccine doesn't mention its effect on shingles ( http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/vaccination.html ), which suggests to me that avoiding shingles may be a great perk, it isn't the main reason behind requiring vaccination in school children. With the caveats of believing Wikipedia, Wikipedia's page ( http://en.wikipedia.or…

meh, I think I'll take the discomfort over: "Some people with serious complications from chickenpox can become so sick that they need to be hospitalized. Chickenpox can also cause death.

Some deaths from chickenpox continue to occur in healthy, unvaccinated children and adults. Many of the healthy adults who died from chickenpox contracted the disease from their unvaccinated children."

quoted from http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/about/complications.html

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#133

Post by bequanna » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 6:46 PM UTC

DougN7 wrote: post #130

bequanna wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying, and I get that you're playing devil's advocate here. I'm not saying 'screw vaccination deniers', I think we should have this conversation. My position is simply that your rights end where mine begin. This isn't like teaching alternatives to evolution in public school. If you don't want to believe in evolution, it irks me, but that doesn't really hurt me. People can die when others ref…

> My position is simply that your rights end where mine begin What about where your rights might begin? I'm thinking of the dangers of alcohol, drugs, etc. where my use doesn't guarantee causing you trouble, but it definitely increases the likelyhood - much like not gettig vaccinated.

Not sure I follow you here.

If you 'cause me trouble' on drugs/alcohol, that is a decision you are making as an individual. If you drink and drive, if you punch me, you are actively choosing to cause harm.

Being drunk or high isn't really a valid excuse for bad behavior or committing crimes.

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#134

Post by DougN7 » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 11:26 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #133

DougN7 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My position is simply that your rights end where mine begin What about where your rights might begin? I'm thinking of the dangers of alcohol, drugs, etc. where my use doesn't guarantee causing you trouble, but it definitely increases the likelyhood - much like not gettig vaccinated.

Not sure I follow you here. If you 'cause me trouble' on drugs/alcohol, that is a decision you are making as an individual. If you drink and drive, if you punch me, you are actively choosing to cause harm. Being drunk or high isn't really a valid excuse for bad behavior or committing crimes.

I guess I'm thinking not getting vaccinated doesn't actively cause you harm. It might. So someone getting drunk/stoned/high might cause you harm. I guess there is some lessened ability to make a decision, but causing an accident for example is something no sober person would do. But we allow people to drink and take the chance. Seems similar to allowing people to not get vaccinated to me.