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Italia Startup Visa

italiastartupvisa.mise.gov.it

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Re: Italia Startup Visa

#131

Post by somehnreader »

pkaye wrote: post #54
tobltobs wrote: post #51

If you want to tap into the pool of talented italian engineers you could also open up a shop at the border to Italy in Switzerland and employ cross-border commuter from northern Italy. You would have to pay them more than if you would open up your shop in Italy, but you would avoid these kafkaeske system called Italy and enjoy all the advanteges of Switzerland.

Then why not just stay fully in Switzerland?

Driving through it or being there for a holiday is not a problem as they are a member of Schengen but to obtain a Work Visa for Switzerland is another step of paperwork. People holding EU Passports still need to apply for a Work Visa.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#132

Post by IlPeach »

davidw wrote: post #123
gQTZNsXG wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You stupid idiot. You're describing "regime dei minimi" as if it was a regular taxation for freelancers, but it's definitely not. "Regime dei minimi" is a taxation level available only if you bill not more than 30'000 €/year. Note this is not net income, but gross income. So you go down to 22'000€ after taxes (21% + 5%) and then you have to take away your own costs, and then you can keep some money for yourself. Also…

Your calculations are correct, but please remove the name-calling. It takes away a lot from the quality of the discussion.

I read it with a thick Italian accent, it made it more funny than offensive :)

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#133

Post by andrea_sdl »

lucaronin wrote: post #117

Oh come on. Some comments from “italians” here are really disgusting. I’m Italian, live in Italy and run a startup here. I know A LOT of guys who run successful businesses here (not me, yet!), who don’t have to deal with mafia, corruption and mandolinos. Is it harder here than in some other countries? For sure. Are there issues with taxes, regulations, etc? Hell yes. BUT. It’s not impossible to build great companies…

I _totally_ second this comment. (disclaimer: I'm italian and I live and work in italy)

I agree that Italy has a big fiscal pressure, but aside from that, the issue with mafia and corruption that keeps appearing into this topic is misleading, it makes people think that once you have a startup, mafia will come to you, and that's absolutely not true.

I think there are only 2 main elements to keep in main when running a business in italy 1. Fiscal pressure 2. Bureaucracy

They are the only blocks people opening a startup here might really need to figure out how to handle.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#134

Post by twsted »

Wow, I would never have expected such level of pessimism and negativity from my compatriots. There are many things to improve here and this new effort could be a little step in that direction. Surely many other things must be done and our bad political class has not helped at all.

I've have co-founded a couple of startups here (one http://www.eidosmedia.com has had a very good success worldwide; another one http://catflow.it is gaining momentum) and I continue to have a great optimism for what can be done in this country, maintaining a good lifestyle.

Fiscal pressure, crazy laws? Yes. Is it a suicide working here? Absolutely not.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#135

Post by [deleted] »

mystixx wrote: post #130
mashermack wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain me how do you pretend to change something when your clients are paying 50% of what the clients in other countries are willing to pay (if they pay, 'cause lots really like to delay payments indefinitely), while your suppliers are constantly banging your door to pay (rightly) them, and while your government 5 days a week is trying everything possible to shut your business down? Be serious, go abroad for 3 month…

You won't find anyone who disagrees with you on this. This is not the point, however. Everyone in Italy is disappointed. But if you're going abroad, there are good chances that you're one of those who can make the difference. And if those who can make the difference go abroad, how do you pretend to change things here? Let me only say that this: if Italy is a sinking boat, people who leave the country, they don't have…

[deleted]

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#136

Post by s3nnyy »

lawl wrote: post #94
CalRobert wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll want to check out: Dutch American Friendship Treaty (if you can self-employ and are from the US this could be your best option) Blue Card (If you can get a job in Germany) Irish Startup Visa ( http://www.pond-crosser.com/uk-and-ireland/republic-ireland/... ) Disclaimer - I put up pond-crosser a while ago to keep track of some of these things. Switzerland is lovely but their population recently voted to restric…

> Switzerland is lovely but their population recently voted to restrict free movement of workers with the EU so maybe not ideal. No we haven't :) What was voted on was that the gov. should be able to cap the number of immigrants per year if necessary. That has neither been done yet, nor will anything change in practice because the EU puts too much pressure on this.

The Swiss Franc just increased in value by 15%; so I got a nice salary raise as I transfer my money regularly from CHF to EUR. (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102340182)

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#137

Post by massimosgrelli »

DaniFong wrote: post #19
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

"the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it." Hmm. Why not go there, write some code for the broader world, start the business somewhere else?

Well, this actually isn't so bad. The good thing about Italy is that if you live here life is pretty cheap - compared to Silicon Valley. So, you could consider Italy like "a garage" where to start your venture or even a place where you can localize your programmers while running your business somewhere else. Of course it doesn't apply to people not living here, ... so why on Earth a startup visa program? Open the gates to founders is not enough is you don't create a income tax + regulation free + labour tax + notary free zone in the country to attract talented people here. Until today we don't have it and this thread is just a proof of Italian high tech entrepreneurs discouragement.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#138

Post by krumiro79 »

Italian here. I've been employed, a freelance and also been an employer (had an ecommerce ltd).

My experience is that Italy is not a fertile place for both employers and employees because of tax pressure, corruption, lack of skilled workers and low salaries.

There's no reason for an EU citizen to choose Italy as there's more chances to succeed in other countries.

Popular companies have moved or planning to move away (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/11...).

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#139

Post by massimosgrelli »

hackerboos wrote: post #72
gruturo wrote: post #11

One piece of advice from an Italian, who was born and grew up there: It's a suicide, absolutely do NOT do this. We have the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it. But opening a business in that dysfunctional country? RUN and don't look back. Between fiscal pressure, crazy laws and compliances, the effective presumption of guilt, completely broken or unavailable infrastructure in the hand of mon…

Is the mafia still a problem in mainland Italy? Serious question...

They got smarter and now they are in the government structures. Not everybody of course, but recent facts emerged in gov corruption that mafia and criminal organization in general were directly managing billions of euros in public infrastructure building. Those billions were paid by Italian taxpayers.

Re: Italia Startup Visa

#140

Post by toyg »

Fede_V wrote: post #40

Ehh, I thought I was negative about Italy, but seeing what everyone else is saying, I'm probably the most positive person here. The pros: - There are some absolutely excellent open source developers who can be hired much more cheaply than the US. - Life is excellent. Italy is a really beautiful country. - Lots of incredibly low hanging fruits. Italy has a lot of great companies that makes excellent products the entir…

> once you grow to more than 15 employees, staff hired full time is basically impossible to fire.

This has been a myth for a long time now. Unless your business is heavily unionised and full of 50somethings hired back in the '80s, there are umpteen ways to fire people, some of them even paid-for by the State. Not that anyone needs to actually fire anybody: most people nowadays are just contractors from day 1 and never really "hired" in the first place.

Recent changes in employment laws were introduced so that very large firms with a long-established unionised workforce (FIAT etc) will find it easy to break the unions' back for good. They will do nothing for medium and small firms, who will just keep using the contractor model.

(Of course, if you pocketed your workers' pension contributions for years, or did similar shenanigans behind their back counting on them behind happy to just get a paycheck month-in month-out, then you can't fire them, because they will sue you and get a huge payout. But you would never do that, right?)

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