How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips • Hacker News Board

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#131

Post by johngalt » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:47 AM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #41

meowface wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiters in the US make an average of $4.63 and median of $4.00 per hour [1] from their employer in wages. They make the rest of their income in tips. If you don't tip, you're potentially taking a not insignificant chunk out of their pay for the day. In the US, it takes fairly extreme circumstances to not tip (by most people's standards at least; some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group), like if the servi…

Yeah I mean I understand all of that, I just think it's crazy. As a consumer. Vox said it well with "consumers should not be responsible for paying the incomes of a restaurant owner's employees". I find it hilarious how much intelligent and smart people rationalise the US tipping culture. It's always justified as you need to tip because the staff are paid low because they make it up in tips. It's circular reasoning.

Why do you go to a restaurant rather than buying food from a grocery store and eating at home? The service aspect is what you pay for when going out to eat vs just buying food.

Tipping is about connecting the buyers and sellers of services directly. How does sending the money through a manager/owner result in better or more cost effective services?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#132

Post by mcot2 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:49 AM UTC

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

There is also a scam going in Las Vegas where it's a $3.00 or $3.50 fee to use a credit card versus cash. Fee + tip doubles the cost of some rides. Vegas has also banned Uber.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#133

Post by madeofpalk » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:50 AM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #131

madeofpalk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean I understand all of that, I just think it's crazy. As a consumer. Vox said it well with "consumers should not be responsible for paying the incomes of a restaurant owner's employees". I find it hilarious how much intelligent and smart people rationalise the US tipping culture. It's always justified as you need to tip because the staff are paid low because they make it up in tips. It's circular reasoning.

Why do you go to a restaurant rather than buying food from a grocery store and eating at home? The service aspect is what you pay for when going out to eat vs just buying food. Tipping is about connecting the buyers and sellers of services directly. How does sending the money through a manager/owner result in better or more cost effective services?

What I said elsewhere in the thread:

IMHO, one of the employers responsibility is to pay their staff. I don't think that's really arbitrary, it's commonly accepted across the world.

If you're in the service industry, it's your job to be nice. That's what their employer (hopefully) pays them for.

If I have a good or bad experience, I exercise my discretion by choosing whether to go there again. If the employer notices a trend downwards in customers, it's their responsibility to assess what that is - hopefully their in touch enough with their business to identify if it's because of their employees service and 'apply pressure' if need be.

I guess ultimately it comes down to culture. I (and the large majority of the non-US world) isn't accustom to paying 10%+ extra for bad or rude service and it would be very hard for us to understand why that happens.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#134

Post by mattip » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:54 AM UTC

bbarn wrote: post #120

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

I've had this tried on me before, in Chicago where we're supposed to have super strict taxi laws. The correct response is to dial 911, not 311, and say you've got a taxi attempting to rob you. Notice next time you walk across an intersection at a stop sign, who comes to a complete stop more.. the average driver, or a taxi cab. Taxi's fear police way more than the average driver.

Maybe they stop to run up the meter more

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#135

Post by meepmorp » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:54 AM UTC

shostack wrote: post #102

infinotize wrote: post #22

I thought this was a pretty blatant cheap trick the first time I saw it (similar to restaurants putting tip calculations on bills from 18-25% (which are usually post-tax no less!!)) and on the occasion I am in a cab always punch in "Other," or best option pay cash. Automatic deduction for cabbies who often tip themselves and hand you less change without asking - give me my change in full and I'll tip you, thanks. To…

"Automatic deduction for cabbies who often tip themselves and hand you less change without asking - give me my change in full and I'll tip you, thanks." Couldn't that be entirely (and easily) avoided by simply handing them cash and asking for a specific amount back? Ie. fare is $10 and you want to give a $2 tip, you hand them a $20 and ask for $8 back. Is there a benefit to not asking for a specific amount back that…

> Couldn't that be entirely (and easily) avoided by simply handing them cash and asking for a specific amount back? Ie. fare is $10 and you want to give a $2 tip, you hand them a $20 and ask for $8 back. Is there a benefit to not asking for a specific amount back that I'm missing?

I've actually never seen anyone pay for a cab any other way but asking for an amount of change back (well, besides just giving them the amount you want to give them and getting out of the cab).

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#136

Post by pmoriarty » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:56 AM UTC

parennoob wrote: post #121

madeofpalk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> guaranteed that they will make at least the federal minimum wage Guaranteed legally, and guaranteed in reality are two different things. If I pay someone to drive me somewhere, it's legally guaranteed that they're licensed driver by the government by the appropriate regulator. But in reality, UberX. I would like to know how often employee's end up following this up with their employer, and how often the employer ma…

This. I come from a culture where tipping implies "reward for good service". But in the US, I always feel that if I tip less than the expected 20%, practically I may be cutting into someone's wages. If they demand the difference, they may end up getting fired by their boss. Does anyone know if these workers are that helpless in practice? Or can they make a single call and get the restaurant owner in trouble if he/she…

It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it. The service in Europe tends to be of a much lower quality than in the US as well.

In general, the US is a consumer paradise compared to Europe. In the US, it's better to be a consumer than an employee. In Europe it's the opposite.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#137

Post by SilasX » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 6:02 AM UTC

joshmn wrote: post #126

bunderbunder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping in the USA goes something beyond just being culture. We've even got it ingrained into our laws. Minimum wage for servers is barely nominal, and much less than what anyone else in the restaurant is making. It's expected that customer tips will form the bulk of their earnings. So if you believe that people deserve to be paid a living wage for their time even when they're not at their best, the status quo places…

Think about it: if we weren't tipping our wait staff, service would be awful, yet, if we paid our wait staff a livable wage, the prices at restaurants would increase ten-fold.

Restaurant meals aren't 10x more in no-tip countries.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#138

Post by pmoriarty » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 6:06 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #119

acjohnson55 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for changing the absurd system where tipping is practically required for one where a reasonable wage is paid and pre-factored into the cost of the service. But if we all just stopped tipping suddenly, it's the most vulnerable people who bear the brunt until the system adjusts. I think that's pretty morally suspect.

A small sprinkle of restaurants[1] have begun trying an alternative where tips are disallowed but include some type of additional charge on your bill and in return the staff get paid a higher wage. According to another article this has resulted in better service from the staff --and that would seem to be opposite of what you might get from continental servers (who customarily don't get tips), so it bears watching. [1…

You don't have to wait for the results to come in. Just go to Europe, where this has been standard practice for decades if not longer.

For what it's worth, in my own personal experience and that of others I've talked with, the service in Europe is markedly worse than what you usually get in the US. But anecdotes like mine are too little to go on. I'd be interested to hear if there's been any cross-cultural research on the subject.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#139

Post by SilasX » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 6:09 AM UTC

megablast wrote: post #69

[deleted] wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

So every job where you deal with people should resort to this method of payment? Sure, that is a great idea. I look forward to tipping my supermarket clerk, the post office guy, the delivery guy, the bus driver. Japan has the right idea.

We're going that direction, sadly. I'm now being hounded for tips at more fast food and convience stores.

Maria Shriver now has a compaign to guilt people into tipping hotel maids (more?).

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#140

Post by mc32 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 6:12 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #138

mc32 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small sprinkle of restaurants[1] have begun trying an alternative where tips are disallowed but include some type of additional charge on your bill and in return the staff get paid a higher wage. According to another article this has resulted in better service from the staff --and that would seem to be opposite of what you might get from continental servers (who customarily don't get tips), so it bears watching. [1…

You don't have to wait for the results to come in. Just go to Europe, where this has been standard practice for decades if not longer. For what it's worth, in my own personal experience and that of others I've talked with, the service in Europe is markedly worse than what you usually get in the US. But anecdotes like mine are too little to go on. I'd be interested to hear if there's been any cross-cultural research o…

I thought that too, buut then I thought about Japan --and there they get paid near minimum wage (comparable to US minimum wage) but also have no tipping policy (or rather culture) and yet service tends to be great. So I think culture has a significant impact --and I wonder where US staff might fall; towards European apathy or Japanese pride in vocation.