How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything • Hacker News Board

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#131

Post by trhway » Sun, Nov 16, 2014, 9:36 AM UTC

lern_too_spel wrote: post #130

trhway wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

man, 'vei just read what the Petrie multiplier is. It clearly explains why, given equal sexism by men and women, women's experience is worst. Thus to equalize experience, according to the Petrie multiplier, men should decrease their sexism way below women's. Forcing men to decrease their sexism way below women's is an attack on men by definition, and the Petrie multiplier provides mathematical foundation for it.

Is it really that much of a burden not to be sexist or racist? The obliviousness I see in this supposedly enlightened industry astounds me.

you probably didn't read what Petrie multiplier is - it clearly explains why heavily disbalanced industry like hi-tech consisting of practically non-sexist/non-racist Jesus-es would feel like sexist and racist environment by the corresponding minorities. Onus is on you to show that people in the industry are actually sexist and racist - according to Petrie multiplier, minorities feeling bad isn't enough to conclude that the majority consists of sexist and racist people.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#132

Post by Gravityloss » Sun, Nov 16, 2014, 9:12 PM UTC

8_hours_ago wrote: post #6

Add it to the list along with the million dollar space pen[0]. Oversimplifying things like that seems to be pretty common in politics. When you say something like "the government spent millions of dollars on a shrimp treadmill!!", the desired reaction is achieved well before any well-reasoned rebuttal can be made. And by the time that the truth comes out -- if it ever does -- it's too late to correct the audience's i…

Wouldn't it work to discredit enough of these stories coming from the same sources - that way, after a certain period, claims coming from the source can be discarded by default, and only assumed true if they can be verified via some other means. Ad hominem, basically.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#133

Post by TeMPOraL » Sun, Nov 16, 2014, 11:55 PM UTC

NeverEnough wrote: post #97

astrange wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His shirt was a handmade gift from his friend's wife, who's a tattoo artist. I would personally be surprised to find out that tattoo artists are the kind of thing that keeps women away from science. I mean, it's probably a rare interaction. Blaming their parents seems more productive.

it is that he found it an appropriate shirt to wear. as an extreme comparison, if it was a woman dominated field and they commonly wore shirts depicting scantily clad men with bulging pants, I think it would impact my desire to enter that field. I don't know that the parents can be blamed so readily. Here in Los Angeles at least, I've been very dissaspointed with what my classmates consider appropriate.

> it is that he found it an appropriate shirt to wear.

It was a hand-made gift from a friend. He did it to make her smile. In such circumstances I'd probably do the same thing.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#134

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 12:03 AM UTC

Volundr wrote: post #16

exstudent wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the US. Just today the UK press made the lead scientist of the Rosetta mission cry by attacking his SHIRT instead of celebrating his achievements. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11231320/Rosetta-mi...

This is the first I've heard of this, but it hardly seems like the UK press made him do it. The lady asked a question about his achievement and he responded talking about his shirt. Perhaps he genuinely felt bad about what he (probably unthinkingly) chose to wear, the possible message it sends, and wanted to address it?

Like /u/exstudent says, it was a reaction to a Verge article and a huge shi(r)tstorm that followed after that, on Twitter and elsewhere. SJWs made the guy completely break down.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#135

Post by lern_too_spel » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 4:12 AM UTC

trhway wrote: post #131

lern_too_spel wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that much of a burden not to be sexist or racist? The obliviousness I see in this supposedly enlightened industry astounds me.

you probably didn't read what Petrie multiplier is - it clearly explains why heavily disbalanced industry like hi-tech consisting of practically non-sexist/non-racist Jesus-es would feel like sexist and racist environment by the corresponding minorities. Onus is on you to show that people in the industry are actually sexist and racist - according to Petrie multiplier, minorities feeling bad isn't enough to conclude t…

You misunderstood what the Petrie multiplier is. It assumes equal non-zero racism/sexism/minorityism. It doesn't matter whether it is a majority. I posit to you that there is no reason why it shouldn't be zero.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#136

Post by cehlen » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 10:56 PM UTC

I don't have a problem with the $3M, shrimp on a tread mill, or $3M for shrimp on a tread mill. The problem I have is I still don't know what this guy was trying to discover even after I read the article. If your going to ask tax payers for $3M do us all a favor and spend a couple of hundred explaining in layman's terms why!

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#137

Post by trhway » Tue, Nov 18, 2014, 12:57 AM UTC

lern_too_spel wrote: post #135

trhway wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you probably didn't read what Petrie multiplier is - it clearly explains why heavily disbalanced industry like hi-tech consisting of practically non-sexist/non-racist Jesus-es would feel like sexist and racist environment by the corresponding minorities. Onus is on you to show that people in the industry are actually sexist and racist - according to Petrie multiplier, minorities feeling bad isn't enough to conclude t…

You misunderstood what the Petrie multiplier is. It assumes equal non-zero racism/sexism/minorityism. It doesn't matter whether it is a majority. I posit to you that there is no reason why it shouldn't be zero.

>You misunderstood what the Petrie multiplier is. It assumes equal non-zero racism/sexism/minorityism.

misunderstanding is all yours. Equal sexism results in worse experience by the members of minority. Equal experience would necessarily require lower sexism displayed by the members of the majority - read the Petrie multiplier post again if you don't understand that statement. Thus push for equal experience in a male dominated environment is an equivalent of push for the males in that environment to display lower sexism than the women in the same environment. In other words it is an "attack on men".

>I posit to you that there is no reason why it shouldn't be zero.

And there is no reason why people shouldn't violate red light. In theory. They do it in practice.