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NFL players: height and weight over time

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Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#131

Post by marknutter »

markdown wrote: post #84
torbit wrote: post #64

Anytime I see a post about football I wonder how it is different from rugby, so I'll just post this intresting article "In rugby, the only collision (i.e., running at speed for the purpose of forcing a player to the ground) is when one has the ball. The other 29 lads on the pitch are there for support. In American football, 21 of the 22 players had better be colliding with someone on every down - at full speed. In gr…

Another factor is the lack of a helmet and padding. Because of this, players are much more careful when tackling. Eg: * NEVER leading with the head, which is quite common in American Football * There must be an attempt to wrap your arms around the player. Not doing so is a shoulder charge, and illegal. * High tackles (above the shoulders) are illegal and can result in yellow or red card depending on severity. * Spear…

Quick clarification point because other Americans like myself might initially be confused - in the NFL "spearing" is different than "spear tackling" in Rugby, and is actually what you describe in your first bullet point; a tackle where you lead with the head.

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#132

Post by LanceH »

drpgq wrote: post #78
incision wrote: post #6

Craig M. Booth has done some very nice visualizations on this subject [1]. I found this chart comparing height/weight of 2013 rosters by position [2] particularly interesting and this set [3] covers a question that anyone who has read Outliers has probably wondered about. 1: http://www.craigmbooth.com/category/nfl/ 2: http://www.craigmbooth.com/height-and-weight-of-every-active... 3: http://www.sportsballweekly.com/t…

For number 3 and NBA players, wouldn't the fact that having to be so tall would trump the age effect? Being 7 feet tall is an extremely rare statistic event, so whether the player is born in January or December isn't material.

A lot of this can be explained by the differences in the leagues and how they group kids by age.

NHL: You play by year. An under 17 team (U17) this year will have everyone born in the 1997. If you're born in Jan-May, you're already 17 playing in the under 17 league. This is a small advantage. It is a huge advantage in the U6 league and gets the earlier born into club teams and youth programs where they receive special attention and better hopes of a professional future. This same model applies to soccer.

Basketball: Basketball is unusual in that a tremendous amount of the players growth consists of playing pick up games against other players. Playing against better players is simply a matter of being able to keep up. It is the closest to a meritocracy among these sports.

NFL: Football is unusual in that it is not club dominated but scholastic in nature. The age cutoff is typically Sep 1st, or nearby. I would be curious about those in the July/Aug band and how many were held back a year so they could be older

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#133

Post by learc83 »

jessriedel wrote: post #118
learc83 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you're missing is Chronic traumatic encephalopathy. The current theory is that CTE can be caused by the constant repeated non-concussive hits unique to football (at least among popular American sports), so analyzing concussion rate really isn't helpful. >A brain injury study conducted at the Boston University School of Medicine showed that 33 of 34 players tested post-mortem showed clear signs of CTE.[1] Ev…

Ahh, good, yes CTE is at least a more interesting critique. However, I believe the non-concussive theory is purely a conjecture at this point. This is one of the authors of that Boston study: "While it remains unknown what level of exposure to brain trauma is required to trigger CTE, there is no available evidence that occasional, isolated or well-managed concussions give rise to CTE," one of the study's co-authors,…

That quote doesn't say anything about non-concussive hits.

"there is no available evidence that occasional, isolated or well-managed concussions give rise to CTE,"

He said there was no evidence for occasional concussions, he didn't say anything about repeated non-concussive injuries.

Here's a quote from the BU CTE center

"We believe CTE is caused by repetitive brain trauma. This trauma includes both concussions that cause symptoms and subconcussive hits to the head that cause no symptoms." [1]

I'm a big guy and I live in the south, so you can bet I played my share of football growing up--there are definitely a lot more repeated hits to the head in football than any other popular youth sport.

[1] http://www.bu.edu/cte/about/frequently-asked-questions/

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#134

Post by jessriedel »

learc83 wrote: post #133
jessriedel wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, good, yes CTE is at least a more interesting critique. However, I believe the non-concussive theory is purely a conjecture at this point. This is one of the authors of that Boston study: "While it remains unknown what level of exposure to brain trauma is required to trigger CTE, there is no available evidence that occasional, isolated or well-managed concussions give rise to CTE," one of the study's co-authors,…

That quote doesn't say anything about non-concussive hits. "there is no available evidence that occasional, isolated or well-managed concussions give rise to CTE," He said there was no evidence for occasional concussions, he didn't say anything about repeated non-concussive injuries. Here's a quote from the BU CTE center "We believe CTE is caused by repetitive brain trauma. This trauma includes both concussions that…

Good point. Thanks for the correction.

The fact they're finding it in many other sports and in military personnel, as pointed out in the FAQ, makes me pretty skeptical that this is a disease strongly linked to nonconcussive hits since hockey players and soldiers aren't butting heads every day. But it's pretty hard to draw conclusions while the data and definitions are so vague. Do you know if they've looked specifically at populations of long-time football players with no concussions?

A review article from 2012 had this to say

> While it is clear that anyone who suffers repeated head trauma, regardless of the mechanism, may carry the risk of developing CTE, there is no clear consensus on how much or how little trauma is needed to cause CTE. While most feel CTE is a manifestation of repetitive trauma, the question still stands if it can be caused by a single TBI [10]. In a study by Johnson et al., widespread tau and beta-amyloid deposition was found in the brains of individuals who suffered a single traumatic brain injury. The study included the examination of postmortem brains from long-term survivors (1–47 years) of a single TBI () versus uninjured age-matched controls (). Results showed NFTs to be exceptionally rare in young uninjured controls, yet were abundant and diffuse in one-third of TBI cases.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/rerp/2012/816069/

The last sentence seems to support the idea that the appearance of symptoms is an important threshold, but it's hard to tell what they mean; could also be that anyone cracking heads enough to get sub-concussive CTE are likely to have picked up at least one full concussion.

> I'm a big guy and I live in the south, so you can bet I played my share of football growing up--there are definitely a lot more repeated hits to the head in football than any other popular youth sport

I played 11 years of football, mostly on defense and mostly with my head, and I fully agree. I coach youth football, so any data that would show a dramatically higher risk for football than other sports (which are generally regarded as acceptably risky) is of great interest to me.

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#135

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Steko wrote: post #81
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not as much as you think, because he really wasn't that good of a football player and made his name as a situational fullback. The Cowboys offensive lines of the early 90s are probably the blueprint for the current NFL offensive lines. Those guys were freaking enormous compared to the average line, and it's the main reason why Emmitt Smith is a household name.

The Cowboys themselves were modeled after the Hogs and Giants offensive lines of the 80's. The competing archtype in the late 80's early 90's was the lighter, more agile offensive lines of the 49ers.

I'd agree with that. The 49ers of that era were able to benefit from a lack of a salary cap. They were stacked across the board. It was the place you went when you were an aging star who wanted to win a ring. They wanted those more nimble guys because of the crazy pass rush of the other teams in their division and conference.
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